Chapter 78: Teens That Kill & Rod Ferrell Revisited w/ Aphrodite Jones

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Hi guys. I'm Courtney and I'm
Lisa, and welcome to the next chapter

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in the Book of the Dead.
Brought to you by Dark Cast Network Indie

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Podcasts with a Twist. Hello,
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See you there. Hello, Hello, Welcome to the next chapter in

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the Book of the Dead. With
me today, I have an absolute powerhouse

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in the true crime community. She
knows the true crime world first hand and

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has wrote numerous books on different true
crime subjects. So today with me,

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I have Aphredite Jones to talk about
her book The Embrace, a true vampire

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story, and this is a case
that you guys might be familiar with,

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might not be familiar with. I
have covered it, but it is the

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Rod Farrell case. And Aphrodite is
going to take us through this story in

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the way that only she can do. So, Aphrodite, thank you for

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joining me today. Thank you for
having me. It's an honor. I

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appreciate it very much. So let's
get into it. Let's jump right in.

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What is it about this case that
drew you in? You know,

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why did you decide to write about
it? You know? Take me through

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everything. Sure, So, back
in time when I wrote this story in

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the mid nineties, it really wasn't
the kind of crime that we see teens

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committing today. In fact, it
was an anomaly back then. We didn't

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really see so much of teens killing
adults or each other. It was to

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me a signal to the world that
we really need to watch over our teenagers

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and pay attention to what they're doing
in their back rooms. Because in this

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case, Heather Wendorf was the main
character in the book, was talking with

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Rog Ferrell, who at that time
was lived in Kentucky. But he also

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spent part time with his father in
Florida, where Heather lived, and so

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the two of them got together.
But for the most part they were talking

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on the phone, and they would
talk throughout the night and day and night

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whenever she had the opportunity, and
in essence, rod Ferrell convinced her that

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he was a vampire and he could
tak time travel, and he could make

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people immortal, he could embrace them, give the embrace to turn them into

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his minion, which of course is
crazy. But again this is a separate

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story of teens mixing reality was fantasy, and again we are only seeing a

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lot of that now. We did
not see that in the past. The

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most important thing that I want to
talk about is why the teenagers today,

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Why is there so much violence?
I mean, back in time, the

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Columbine shooting had not yet happened,
and we start to see, you know,

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school shootings and teenagers killing each other
more and more. It's almost become

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pasta It's hard for me to believe
that. What do you think it's definitely

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true. And that's something that I
remember talking about when I originally was going

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through this case. Was that back
in even you know, the nineties,

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when this happened, you didn't read
so much about kids killing kids or kids

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killing adults. It wasn't really a
thing until you know, obviously this is

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the most publicized case or one of
the most publicized cases of kids killing or

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teenagers killing. And then now,
I mean, you can rarely go a

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week without hearing about a teenager that
has committed some horrific crime, and there

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is something to be said about,
like what is influencing them. You know,

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you have the nature of pers nurture, but you know, people want

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to there've been that. You know, it's the age old argument of video

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games cause violence and things like that. But it's it's interesting that there are

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these kids out there that are truly
rotten to the core. And Rod was

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a perfect example of that. It
was just there's something to be said within

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him that was evil and some of
these kids now are just as bad,

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and it's like, I can't wrap
my head around it. Oh. And

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you know, here's the thing.
It's not just that they're evil, because

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you know, we see that and
a lot of these school house shootings sort

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of a mental problem. But also
there has been since this crime, this

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early crime of teen violence, there
have been many people who have gone into

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schools and shot their former classmates or
their classmates in a copytat kind of way

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to what happened in Columbine. And
you know, that's what's so disturbing here,

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Courtney is why and asking the question, trying to answer the question as

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to why these young kids are so
much led astray from reality that they would

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go ahead and murder people, and
more than one person in the case of

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the Embrace, Heather Windorff's parents were
murdered. How did she go along with

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this? What is it about pure
pressure or perhaps not even bitter pressure.

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Perhaps it's bullying, or it's incumbent
upon the team to feel like they need

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to copy someone or show how great
they are and get media attention. I

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mean, it's just really sad that
people can't send their kids to school and

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not have to worry about it.
I just do have to worry about it.

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They do have to give that second
thought to what is going to happen

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in my school today? You know, is my child going to be okay?

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If my teenagers are going to be
okay? And on the flip side

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of this, how is it that
the parents don't know that they have a

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psychologically damaged child. That is my
question to you, And that's I think

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that's something that everyone asks themselves when
they hear about these horrific crimes. It's

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how did the parents not know?
And it's true, I've said it myself.

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How do you? How do you
not know? Is it that you

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are in so much denial that something
is wrong with your child that they could

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potentially have their propensity to do something
so violent? It it's part of me?

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Is it? Is it? You
know? Like I understand, you

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know, a parent loves their child
no matter what, but there has to

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be a line drawn. You know, you love your child, but you

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have to acknowledge if there is violence
within them. And the thing is,

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if you notice, most recently two
parents were actually convicted of criminal acts and

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are being sent to prison for the
acts of their child. And that is

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the first that that's a precedent.
But in that case, you have the

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mom not only give her son a
gun, but also bringing him to school,

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allowing him to be in school,
going to the school knowing that he's

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drawing pictures of guns, pictures her
warped and the mother was told by the

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school, you need to come get
your son he's acting very strangely. He's

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a problem, and you can't leave
him in school right now. We don't

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know what's happening. He's, you
know, having trouble psychologically, and it's

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been noticed by teachers and students,
and that mother refused to take him home

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that day. She left him in
school that day. Now, did she

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know her son was going to pull
a gun? No, But was she

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responsible for giving him the gun,
for allowing him to stay in school?

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And she was warned that very same
day that this is the problems. So

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it makes sense that she and her
husband were convicted criminally. I wonder if

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other parents will be convicted since that
president has been set, because it just

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seems like some of them know that
their kids is into guns, know that

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their kids has psychological problems. It's
been reported before. We've heard that so

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many times. Why don't parents try
to get their kids from help? For

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me, I think it's a lot
of you know, they don't. They

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don't want to be acknowledge there's a
problem. I don't know if it's they

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don't want it to reflect negatively on
themselves. But you're absolutely right that you

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know she in that case, she
essentially enables the incident to happen. She

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literally put the gun in her child's
hands. She ignored the warning signs and

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for what for someone to get hurt? And she, rightfully so was convicted

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of criminal charges in relation to that. So is her husband. And they're

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absolutely parents out there that have ignored
the warning signs or dismissed the warning signs

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and allowed things to happen, and
they should have been held just as accountable

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as their children. Yes, So
the flip side of this is that in

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this story you embraced. It wasn't
other teens that got killed, but it

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was one guy, Rod Ferrell,
who had convinced his minions as followers,

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if you will to do blood lettings, to do the embrace, to become

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a halfling first and eventually a vampire
with an immortal life. And the result

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of this was that Heather Wendorf allowed
Rod Ferrell to come and get her,

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said that she would like her parents
dead, which many teenagers ages do and

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don't mean it. And the day
she was quote embraced by Rod Ferrell,

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she went off with him and the
group of teenagers he brought with him who

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also wanted to become vampires and they
headed to New Orleans, where you know,

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Vampire or Central with Anne Wright writing
these books. Her parents did not

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know that Heather was in contact with
this psychotic person, that Heather's friend had

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given this person a map of how
to get to the Windorf house and where

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the parents would be. Now,
that is something so premeditated and so bizarre.

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What is it in her parents that
didn't notice any change in Heather.

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Heather had gone from being, you
know, a good student to suddenly she's

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dye in her hair, she's you
know, acting weird. She's not the

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same kids she was. She's almost
a god. And you know, I

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get it that teenagers want to forge
their own way and come up with new

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plans. But in this case,
she literally believed that Rod Ferrell could help

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her become immortal. One part of
her belief that the other side of her

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was curious and wanting to experience whatever
it was that he could offer in terms

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of immortality. And how weird is
it that she would think this, like

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what planet are these kids on?
That was what was always interesting to me

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about that case, especially because Heather, just based on you know, all

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the research I did, was by
all accounts, like a good girl.

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She was a good student, you
know, her sister was a cheerleader.

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It was a great family. They
went on all these trips together. And

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then you have this guy, you
have Rod, come in and flip everything

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on its head, and her whole
personality changes. She's so enamored by him.

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And I couldn't understand that a girl
as you know, intelligent as she

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was, and I mean, like
just she was BookSmart. There had to

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have been a part of her the
whole time that when I know you're you're

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full of it. There's nothing that
you're saying that is rooted in reality.

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And she went along with it anyway, Like was it just the allure of

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what he was telling her, this
fantasy world that he created, that had

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such this this stronghold on her.
I think that's part of it, Cordiny.

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I think there's also a part of
teenagers who want to believe that they

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can be immortal. You know,
of course, when you're a teenager,

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the world is yours, but on
top of it, to think that g

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immortality can be offered to me,
or in essence, I can run off

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with these people and have a different
life. I can get away from my

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parents. Who are you know somewhat
strict influencing or trying to to fear with

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what it is she wanted to become. So they did in this case,

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paid some attention to the change in
her, but not enough to really.

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I don't know that they could have
known that Heather was dealing with a psychotic

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person, especially since it was on
the phone. I don't know they could

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have known this. They would know
their daughter was changing, but in this

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story, Heather didn't become a total
goth. Heather was dealing with someone that

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lived out of state. They couldn't
know that. And ultimately what happened is

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Rod Ferrell and his buddy went into
her house. His other friends lord Heather

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out of the house. First they
cut the phone lines. This was back

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before there were cell phones. They
went into the house and on the way

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in Rod picked up a tire iron
in the garage and first beat to death

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heather father, who was laying on
the couch watching TV, minding his own

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business. And then they went to
the mother. Rob Ferrell caught the mother

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as she was coming out of the
shower, and it just so happened that

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he got her in the kitchen.
It was at a ranch house and she

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threw a cup of hot coffee at
him. That was the only defense she

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could make, and he killed her, bludgeoned her. The weird part about

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this story the weirdest part. And
he, by the way, carved a

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v into her father bizar into his
chest. Heather Wendorf went off with Rod

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Ferrell and this group of other teens
headed to New Orleans for this quote New

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Life, Different life. She allowed
the blood letting to occur, and while

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she was in the car escaping from
her house, it was the fact that

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Rob Ferrell was driving her parents suv
that she was like, what is happening?

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How do you have my parents' car? Why is this? And Rod

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told her I killed your parents.
He wanted them dead, and I killed

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your parents. Now he has it
in the backseat of the car, and

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he picks up a strand of pearls
that belonged to her mother to prove to

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her. As he's holding them up. He's in the front seat, she's

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in the back. In the rear
view mirror, she can see these are

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my mom's pearls. And now she
knows that Rod is a murderer. She

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sees that there's blood on him.
She's aware completely that this actually happened,

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And yet in her fantasy world,
she wants to believe it didn't happen.

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She wants to believe, no,
this was just him talking. He stole

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my parents' car, he stole jewelry. This couldn't have happened. So it's

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not as though she really wanted her
parents dead, nor did she believe that

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Rob was a psychopath. Yet how
could she not believe that when he's convincing

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her trying, and has convinced others
that he can actually project himself, that

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he could go back in time and
be somebody who's from a thousand years ago?

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Or you know, what is it
in her that not only entertain this,

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but actually lowered him to where she
lived and was happy to have him

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come there, to bring her to
a cemetery where he did this embrace.

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But what in her change? And
the answer I have to this is,

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like you say, she was going
on a wrong path. Her parents didn't

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realize that. They looked at as, oh, this is teen's acting up.

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She wants to spread her wings.
This is just teenage rebellion. This

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is what teens do. And they
both went up legend to death. Now

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Heather goes into the already in the
car and they're headed to nor Orleans,

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but they make a number of stops
along the way. Why doesn't she find

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a way to call somebody? Why
doesn't she find a way to report this?

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And that's a big question the story
because, as it turns out,

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when they were stopped and it was
in that rouge, one of the teams

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had called the mothers and was scared. Now, why didn't Heather call?

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Well, Heather didn't call anyone,
and that led police to believe that she

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was involved in this murder, that
she really did want her parents dead,

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that it was her fault. And
the weird part was when they were rotten

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to the police station and were questioned, Heather Wendorf acted nonchalantly. She was

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blase about the whole affair, which
made law enforcement think all the more she

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was part of it, that she
was a part of this group of teens

220
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who, in particularly with Rod Ferrell, actually killed her parents. Later,

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when she was questioned by a grand
jury, it wasn't until then when the

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grand jury asked her questions back and
forth. The DA was listening, you

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know, questioning her in every possible
way that the grand jury said, you

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know, what she's innotant. She
didn't know this was going to happen.

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She didn't know that her parents would
actually be killed. And again, this

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is where the cross between reality and
fantasy comes to roost. And I wonder

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how many other teens that are out
there who, as you say, video

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games and the fantasy of that utilize
that for committing violent acts murder because there's

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somehow caught up in a fantasy world, you know what I'm saying, Yeah,

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I think I think that's that is
what what happened with Heather's that she

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was so caught up in this fantasy
world, you know, kind of I

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guess maybe questioning like how far could
this idea go, This you know,

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idea of running away, this idea
of vampires all that, how could how

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far could it go? And her
her parents ended up being a casualty of

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this idea. And I wonder if
she kind of convinced herself that, you

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know, her parents were fine and
this, this fantasy world was outside of

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that about side of what had happened
to her parents, kind of living in

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another world in her mind while this
is happening. And with you know,

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kids today, I think that for
some of them, that is something that

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probably happens. They get so caught
up in this idea of being greater than

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what they are and being on this
different level than you know, quote unquote

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regular people. There was a case
in Russia of two teenagers that went on

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a rampage because they believed that they
were higher beings and they killed they killed

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I think twelve people, and it
was all because of this idea that was

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in their brains that they were better
than that they were higher beings, that

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they were the equivalent to gods.
And I think that it was an their

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case where fantasy and reality that line
was completely blurred. Another issue that I

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want to talk about with teens who
go astray and become violent is what's happening

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right now on the college campuses throughout
the country. This idea that supporting what's

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going and what went on with a
terrorist organization cutting off people's heads, babies

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heads, showing it on video for
all the world to see on the internet,

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being proud of killing three thousand people, three thousand Israelites, And how

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it is that currently so many students
have ignored the fact that the terrorism came

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from you know, the murders came
from a terrorist organization, And how can

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it be that many of these students
say, I am mos, I sympathize

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00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:08.119
as a hams Hamas is not a
terrorist organization, and go after the Israelites,

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go after Jewish students violently all throughout
the country. I feel that this

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is another sense of a fantasy and
a mix up between reality. When a

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country has been invaded, has been
terrorized, like we were in nine to

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eleven when thousands of people were killed
because of it, how is it that

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the people who are in colleges don't
see it. Why is it that there's

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this strange element of you know,
some students raised the flag of another country

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and took down the American flag,
burned American flags, you know, feel

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that America is responsible for this.
We have nothing to do with the war

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there between Israel and Gaza. We
are doing that, We're not killing anyone.

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What is happening with these students,
How do they think that they're actually

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going to influence what net Nyanju does, what Israel is doing to fight back.

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Of course, they are innocent people
who are casualties. Of course,

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they're hard horrors in Yasah. You
know, it amazes me that these many

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young people want to be in denial, want to be in denial of nine

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to eleven. Some of them want
to be in denial about what America has

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to do with these murders. And
again, I think it is a convergence

273
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of reality and fantasy. I do
think that many of them don't even understand

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or know whether or not the original
attack was real. Some of them deny

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it. How does this happen in
our country? How have we gotten to

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this point from you know, almost
thirty years ago, where being violence,

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violence on campuses, violence in high
school's unheard of? And how far does

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this go when we look at what's
going on today? Absolutely, and I

279
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think with the age of the Internet
and the age of technology, it's gotten

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worse and it has it's created a
lot of problems. It's not to say

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we struggle back to the stone ages, but I think that there is misinformation

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and there's a lack of education around
teaching our children's, our children how to

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be safe and to recognize that there
is false information, and there is information

284
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that could be very alluring and very
captivating, and it may not be the

285
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right kind of information, It may
not be totally true. It may be

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a warped truth. And I think
there are a lot of kids that are

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into that, and they are taking
what they're reading online and what they're seeing

288
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online and what they're consuming in the
media, and it's being warped as it's

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being fed to them. And that
is I fully believe is contributing to some

290
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of the violence because these kids,
you know, being impressionable, are hearing

291
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these things and they're agreeing with it
because they have a lack of understanding and

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they're taking that idea and they're allowing
it to kind of mold them and their

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personalities. And here you have the
situation where not one are they protesting,

294
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but they're literally going after Jewish students, harming Jewish students, you know,

295
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scaring Jewish students who now are afraid
to go to their campuses and finish out

296
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their college education. Graduations are being
canceled, as you may know, and

297
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you know there have been there recently
in Columbia University, these students who have

298
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literally broken into one of the buildings, a historical landmark that they just are

299
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destroying. It's gone beyond just violence. How does this This is where coming

300
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back to the embrace and what Heather
Wendorf was involved with, perhaps with misinformation

301
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or you know, wanting to join
a crowd. You wonder of peers,

302
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how many of these students who are
or people who are protesting on all these

303
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college campuses and creating violence, how
many of them are going along with something

304
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as Heather Wendorf did, not even
knowing what the facts are not bothering,

305
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you know, being pamphlet missionaries who
again would rather see Israelize guills rathericy Israelize

306
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be the ones who they look at
as the enemy, they look at as

307
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a country that should not be retaliating
against this active terror. It's just so

308
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wild that we have gone from no
real teen violence thirty years ago, to

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Columbine to you know, Virginia Tech, to you know, the mass shooting

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in a movie theater, to you
know, then now, as you say,

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another shooting on campus or even schools, high schools, elementary schools that

312
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the parents aren't aware of, that
they just allow, or that somehow or

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another they don't check on their kids. They don't know what's going on,

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and they're in their world. And
I think it's because, as you say,

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it's now the Internet, it's easy
for them to find people who agree

316
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with them, and group formations are
now founded by people who are of the

317
00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:10.240
same mindset on the internet. It's
a real problem. It's a real problem.

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It goes beyond just one story or
numerous stories that continue to evolve with

319
00:30:17.079 --> 00:30:22.559
copycat teenagers. We now have,
I want to say, a twisted world,

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and it has to do with young
people who again are collapsing reality with

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some kind of I don't know,
sense of being warriors, which is a

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fantasy. They are not warriors,
you know what I'm saying. No,

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absolutely I do. And I think
part of it is that, you know,

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they do. They think they're warriors, they think they're above everyone else,

325
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and a lot of them do not
fear authority in any way at all.

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I worked in a store for a
while and I saw countless teenagers,

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you know, anywhere from thirteen to
sixteen, absolutely run rampant and be like

328
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violence. I will never forget a
bunch of kids were fooling around. They

329
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broke a woman's foot because they got
so crazy, and the police were called,

330
00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:25.200
and they're talking back to the police, and they're talking back to security

331
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and they're talking. They have zero
fear of authority. And even when I

332
00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:33.720
was younger, that wasn't a thing. You know, you respected authority,

333
00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:37.839
You feared authority. You know,
if I was doing something wrong, you

334
00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:41.720
know, I never in my life
had been in trouble with the police.

335
00:31:41.720 --> 00:31:45.039
But if I thought I was doing
something wrong, you know, I stopped.

336
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You know, these kids don't,
They don't fear authority. They have

337
00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:55.279
this superiority complex, and that's what's
getting a lot of these kids into the

338
00:31:55.319 --> 00:32:00.559
trouble that they're getting in because there's
no limit to what they think they can

339
00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:06.920
do, and they push those boundaries
constantly to the point where people do get

340
00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:10.119
hurt and people lose their lives.
Is it every kid that is a you

341
00:32:10.119 --> 00:32:15.519
know, a little annoying or a
little aggressive or wants to cause trouble in

342
00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:21.720
public. No, but there are
those that are like that. And you

343
00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:25.839
know how many kids are going to
grow up to be killers because they don't

344
00:32:25.880 --> 00:32:32.319
have that respect for authority, of
respect for another human's life, because they

345
00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:37.519
think they're better than everyone else.
So they've lost their moral compass. And

346
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this is this is you know exactly
the story that I wrote about in The

347
00:32:42.079 --> 00:32:51.039
Embrace. Heather lost her moral you
know compus. She ignored whatever warning signs

348
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there were about Rod wanting to come
to her house and acting out. What

349
00:32:55.000 --> 00:32:59.240
with a teenage wish that, Oh, I wish my parents were dead.

350
00:32:59.480 --> 00:33:02.400
I don't know how many teenagers have
thought this. I think at some point

351
00:33:02.599 --> 00:33:08.440
kids think this, But she verbalized
it and rot Darrel acted on it,

352
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and then after it happened, she
didn't want to believe it. So she's

353
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again in a fantasy world. When
she finds out that she is going to

354
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be possibly held responsible for this,
she knows she can walk her way out

355
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of it, and she did.
However, at that time she was basically

356
00:33:31.319 --> 00:33:36.160
run out of town on a rail. Nobody in her family, in the

357
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Wendor family felt that she wasn't responsible. People in the town have used this

358
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where she was from, didn't believe
her, felt that she was responsible.

359
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:52.200
She did not do any media interviews. She was hiding, and you know,

360
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when people started seeing the footage of
her after the arrest acting cavalier,

361
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you got to wonder, since she
was aware now that her parents were actually

362
00:34:01.720 --> 00:34:08.559
dead, what goes through her mind
and why is it that back in time

363
00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:17.599
this happened and again now we have
many more students teenagers who have absolutely no

364
00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:28.400
problem with being violent with crashing windows, with feeling with you know, parming

365
00:34:28.440 --> 00:34:31.039
police, as you say, the
authority that we had back in time,

366
00:34:31.079 --> 00:34:37.320
that we feared and needed. You
need authority, You need police because they

367
00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:42.440
can save you from a dangerous situation, whether it's domestic violence, whether it's

368
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:47.440
street violence. And yet now police
are being shot, police are being banged

369
00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:54.000
over the head, you know,
they're being whatever, bricks are torn of

370
00:34:54.079 --> 00:34:58.840
them. Where do we go from
here? How do we land in this

371
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:04.400
pass bouteille? It's it's mind boggling
to me because it really that's it's true.

372
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It's where where can we go from
here? What is the solution to

373
00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:15.119
rectify what has been done? And
I think part of it is that many

374
00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:21.239
of these students are under a spell
that they really have been turned around,

375
00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:28.760
going in the wrong direction like Heather
Wendorf did, and now it's so prevalent,

376
00:35:28.840 --> 00:35:31.679
and they feel there's no consequences because
in essence, they have not been

377
00:35:31.719 --> 00:35:37.079
consequences. In fact, some of
them Brad, what will happen if you

378
00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:39.800
get arrested in New York in any
event? At n YU. One of

379
00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:45.159
my alma maters at Columbia is somebody
who's asked one of these you know,

380
00:35:45.239 --> 00:35:49.760
protesters, was asked, well,
what happens if you're arrested, and the

381
00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:55.000
protester's answer was go to jail for
overnight and then let me out. And

382
00:35:55.000 --> 00:36:00.239
that is happening. So there are
no consequences there. I mean, other

383
00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:07.000
Wendors experienced consequences. Her parents were
killed, she was run out of town,

384
00:36:07.719 --> 00:36:13.639
she could not have the life she
had had anymore. But people today,

385
00:36:14.480 --> 00:36:20.519
young people who are are rebelling and
creating these acts of violence, there

386
00:36:20.599 --> 00:36:25.400
isn't the kind of consequence that we
saw even fifteen years ago with Columbine,

387
00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:30.920
even twenty five years ago that was
or in many of these other cases.

388
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:42.000
The consequences today don't match the crime, absolutely not. They not even close.

389
00:36:42.440 --> 00:36:46.639
And that's something that's always driven me
crazy is you look at people that

390
00:36:46.639 --> 00:36:52.559
have been convicted of horrific crimes,
and you know, some of them get

391
00:36:52.760 --> 00:36:57.840
some of them get life maybe,
and then others, you have, they

392
00:36:57.880 --> 00:37:02.079
got a couple of years. Or
there was there was someone who who murdered

393
00:37:02.719 --> 00:37:09.400
two teenagers, the mother of one
of the teenagers and mutilated the other mother.

394
00:37:09.519 --> 00:37:15.719
She survived and he got ten years. So yeah, I mean,

395
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:17.920
what kind of sentence is that and
with a good time. They only have

396
00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:25.559
to serve half the time. We
are at a point of anarchy, and

397
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:32.519
the anarchy comes from these young people. We don't see thirty year olds forty

398
00:37:32.599 --> 00:37:42.159
year olds doing these things. We
see people of the newer, older generations

399
00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:47.280
saying we need the police. We
can't you know, function as a society

400
00:37:47.320 --> 00:37:53.880
without the police. And yet police
are regarded by the young people as enemies.

401
00:37:54.360 --> 00:38:00.199
It's just snowballs, Courtney. It
has snowball to a place where I

402
00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:05.079
don't know that we can control this
anymore. How would we turn it around?

403
00:38:06.119 --> 00:38:12.599
Honestly that it's a question that I
genuinely could not tell you the answer

404
00:38:12.679 --> 00:38:16.559
because it is out of control.
It is, it's out of control.

405
00:38:16.599 --> 00:38:23.199
You're right, it's absolute anarchy.
And in the case of you know,

406
00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:29.920
Rod Ferrell, you know he got
the consequences that match the crime. You

407
00:38:29.960 --> 00:38:31.920
know, there was a fear of
police. There is a feel of fear

408
00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:37.840
of authority, and nowadays there isn't
that it doesn't exist. And you know,

409
00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:44.320
you you know, any kid or
teenager can look up a crime online

410
00:38:44.360 --> 00:38:47.280
and see that this person only got
ten years, or this person only got

411
00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:52.960
five years, or they got they
got pleated down to lesser charges, and

412
00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:58.679
so it makes it seem as if
horrific crimes are quote unquote not a big

413
00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:04.039
deal. So in the case of
Brod Ferrold, he was after a trial,

414
00:39:04.400 --> 00:39:10.039
he was sentenced by a jury to
death, and later that was commuted

415
00:39:10.159 --> 00:39:15.840
by a governor of Florida to life
without parole. And now we're in a

416
00:39:15.880 --> 00:39:22.280
place where Brod ferrel is actually filing
appealed to get out. So even though

417
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:29.519
he murdered Heather's parents in the most
violent way, he thinks it's okay now.

418
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:31.559
I mean, with all this going
on the art in the world,

419
00:39:32.119 --> 00:39:37.239
maybe he'll get an appeal, maybe
he'll get out. And again, I

420
00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:44.880
just I can't imagine that somebody would
go in a house, premeditate this and

421
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:52.320
wind up murdering, slaughtering Heather's parents
and think that it's all okay now I

422
00:39:52.320 --> 00:40:00.719
could get out. At the same
time, I interviewed Rod while he was

423
00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:05.920
in jail in a holding cell during
the time of his trials, and Rod

424
00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:12.679
told me that he was not only
immortal, but he identified with Isis and

425
00:40:12.760 --> 00:40:19.360
other gods and figures from mythology and
was talking to me about this as if

426
00:40:20.880 --> 00:40:25.119
it was real like he's sitting behind
bars, he's being tried and the death

427
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:30.800
penalties on the table, and he's
still in this fantasy world. It was

428
00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:37.400
absolutely bizarre at that time. Now
we see this on a regular basis,

429
00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:43.440
and these young people feel there are
no consequences. They can get away with

430
00:40:43.480 --> 00:40:45.800
whatever they want to get away with. They can smash and brab, they

431
00:40:45.840 --> 00:40:54.880
can steal without being punished if they
steal under ten thousand dollars worth of goods.

432
00:40:55.480 --> 00:41:01.280
I don't know. I just wonder
how this is going to get turned

433
00:41:01.320 --> 00:41:05.639
around. How do we turn the
clock back in time? How do we

434
00:41:05.719 --> 00:41:10.239
get back to before columnline? Is
it possible? I think it starts with

435
00:41:12.599 --> 00:41:17.719
parents being mindful of what's going on
with their children. And I don't necessarily

436
00:41:17.800 --> 00:41:22.320
mean being like a helicopter parent,
because you know, you can't suffocate your

437
00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:27.320
kids, but being mindful. You
know, what are they doing on the

438
00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:30.880
internet? Are they spending all hours
of the night on the computer? Okay?

439
00:41:30.039 --> 00:41:36.039
But why? What? What is
so captivating on the computer that they're

440
00:41:36.079 --> 00:41:39.000
finding? You know, just have
that honest conversation. What are you doing

441
00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:42.639
in the computer? What kind of
websites do you on? You know,

442
00:41:43.119 --> 00:41:47.280
do some research find out what's going
on. If your kid has gone from

443
00:41:47.360 --> 00:41:53.639
bubbly and outspoken with this big personality
to more sullen and withdraw it, you

444
00:41:53.679 --> 00:41:58.719
know what is going on. There
is no shame in therapy talk to have

445
00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:02.079
them talk to a therapist, you
know, get that education, find out

446
00:42:02.119 --> 00:42:08.639
what is going on, because nothing
is going to get close to beginning to

447
00:42:08.719 --> 00:42:14.679
start getting better if parents don't know
what's going on with their kids, and

448
00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:21.039
if kids don't start developing that healthy
fear and respect of authority, right,

449
00:42:21.079 --> 00:42:24.440
and I think it does start at
home, or it certainly did back you

450
00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:30.559
know in years past. When I
say start at home, they're not being

451
00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:35.159
monitored. You're right not to be
helicopter parents. But what about going on

452
00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:39.360
Facebook and seeing who they're involved with
what they're posting. Many of them posts

453
00:42:39.440 --> 00:42:45.360
manifest those they're proud of it,
they want to kill. What's wrong with

454
00:42:46.280 --> 00:42:52.960
looking at what your kid is actually
saying. And if the kid is planning

455
00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:58.639
to murder, or is obsessed with
homicide, or is obsessed with getting even

456
00:42:58.719 --> 00:43:05.400
with people, bring them to a
counselor bring them to somebody who can keep

457
00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:12.880
them it's in reality and get them
out of the idea that being a murderer

458
00:43:13.239 --> 00:43:16.440
is cool. You know this idea
that oh, if I, you know,

459
00:43:16.760 --> 00:43:21.880
like Rod Ferrell, wants to be
immortal if I do this. Finbald

460
00:43:21.920 --> 00:43:27.119
and Harris became immortal in what they
did. So it's in the media,

461
00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:30.039
it's talked about, they're talked about. One of the things the media has

462
00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:35.880
done, which is positive, is
that we don't hear about the killer as

463
00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:40.280
much as that used to be.
They're not getting the attentions that they think

464
00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:45.880
they're going to get by a schoolhouse
shooting. The media has wived up to

465
00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:52.400
this and has no longer given them
the status, if you will, of

466
00:43:52.639 --> 00:43:57.599
being fifteen minutes the same or more
than fifteen minutes the same, of being

467
00:43:58.400 --> 00:44:04.400
you know, analyzed and almost cajoled
by the media back in time. I

468
00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:08.599
think that's one good thing. But
I mean, in a case of Pether

469
00:44:08.760 --> 00:44:14.599
lendarf I will tell you this,
even though she was not convicted of murder,

470
00:44:14.719 --> 00:44:17.559
she was not tried for the murder
of her parents. Her sister got

471
00:44:17.599 --> 00:44:22.719
upon to stand and said, Heather
did make that statement that she wanted her

472
00:44:22.760 --> 00:44:29.239
parents killed. That was something that
was mind blowing. And beyond that,

473
00:44:29.960 --> 00:44:32.679
after this was all over, after
I had my book out, which Heather,

474
00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:37.119
you know, worked with me quite
a bit after all of that.

475
00:44:37.559 --> 00:44:44.079
When the book was out, I
called her. She was now in college

476
00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:49.199
in a different state, and she
was talking about her new life and everything

477
00:44:49.320 --> 00:44:52.800
was fine. She seemed to not
care at all that her parents were gone.

478
00:44:52.519 --> 00:44:57.400
In fact, this is the thing
she told me, Oh, it's

479
00:44:57.440 --> 00:45:00.360
all good. I have a new
boyfriend, I have new tat, a

480
00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:05.280
new cat. I'm happy. It's
good. I said, what's the name

481
00:45:05.320 --> 00:45:07.920
of the cat? She said,
Lucy, Oh, that's great. You

482
00:45:07.960 --> 00:45:10.159
know, I'm glad that you're there. I don't know what else to say

483
00:45:10.159 --> 00:45:14.199
to her. You know, she's
lost her parents, for God's sake,

484
00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:17.159
from the time she was a teen. And you know what she tells me.

485
00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:24.559
She says, yeah, Lucy,
it stands for Lucifer. Now think

486
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:30.440
about that for a minute, if
you can see right now. Oh my

487
00:45:30.519 --> 00:45:36.079
god, this is where you know, you have to really think. At

488
00:45:36.079 --> 00:45:40.320
the end of the day, the
grand jury believed that she had nothing to

489
00:45:40.360 --> 00:45:45.280
do with this, that she was
innocent, that she was unaware that anything

490
00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:49.960
would happen to her parents, and
yet she's cavalier after she discovers that her

491
00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:53.000
parents are murdered she doesn't do anything
about it. After she sees Rod Ferrell's

492
00:45:53.119 --> 00:46:00.199
holding up her mother's pearls, she
goes along with the program in there,

493
00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:07.320
and after Saul said and done,
she's naming her cat after Lucifer. She's

494
00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:13.519
still into the devil. She's still
into state and worship. What the heck

495
00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:19.840
was going on back then? That's
something that I was grappling with that I

496
00:46:19.880 --> 00:46:23.880
couldn't even tell anyone about because the
book was done and we didn't have podcasts

497
00:46:23.920 --> 00:46:29.440
back then. You know, I
had already done interviews about the book prior

498
00:46:29.480 --> 00:46:34.280
to this, and I couldn't go
back and tell anyone this. But it

499
00:46:34.719 --> 00:46:39.480
occurred to me that, man,
this girl is evil. She was not

500
00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:44.880
innocent in all of this, not
at all. Looking back, I remember,

501
00:46:45.239 --> 00:46:47.119
you know, doing the research covering
the story, and I kept going

502
00:46:47.159 --> 00:46:52.639
back and forth on whether or not
hoether I had any sort of culpability in

503
00:46:52.679 --> 00:46:54.960
this, you know, whether or
not she was complicit in this in any

504
00:46:54.960 --> 00:47:00.840
way. And I really I hadn't
an eye hawed, and I really couldn't

505
00:47:01.360 --> 00:47:06.719
definitively say whether I believe she had
absolutely nothing to do with it or was

506
00:47:07.159 --> 00:47:14.119
completely oblivious to what was going to
happen and hearing that, Wow, that

507
00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:21.079
changes, that absolutely changes everything.
Right, it does, and it brings

508
00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:24.760
me back to the fact that she
got away with it. She had no

509
00:47:24.880 --> 00:47:32.199
consequences. And you know, as
this has evolved over the years, who

510
00:47:32.199 --> 00:47:37.440
else had no consequences? Who else
has done things? And as we are

511
00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:45.039
today creating senseless acts of violence thinking
they can get away with it, and

512
00:47:45.480 --> 00:47:51.079
many of them do today. You
or not for schoolhouse shootings, But when

513
00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:57.119
we look at what's going on right
this minute, do you think these students,

514
00:47:57.360 --> 00:48:00.800
these people who are protesting, feel
they're going to hey the price for

515
00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:06.719
this? Absolutely not, absolutely not. And that's why they get wilder and

516
00:48:06.880 --> 00:48:12.079
wilder. And you gotta wonder what
is it in It's not just a lone

517
00:48:12.159 --> 00:48:15.599
shooter. It's no longer, Josh, somebody who's a psychopath, somebody who

518
00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:22.280
you know, has a need for
fame, has a need to be notorious.

519
00:48:22.639 --> 00:48:24.800
No, no, no, no, Now we have people that are

520
00:48:24.880 --> 00:48:34.079
joined together and literally just committing chaof
anarchy. It's something that really has affected

521
00:48:34.119 --> 00:48:37.320
me, that really, you know. And I wrote another book called Cruel

522
00:48:37.360 --> 00:48:42.079
Sacrifice about four teenage girls who murdered
a twelve year old at the time that

523
00:48:42.159 --> 00:48:45.719
I wrote that again in the nineties. Prior to writing The Embrace, it

524
00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:52.000
was unheard of that teenage girls would
kill a twelve year old. It was

525
00:48:52.079 --> 00:48:58.599
unheard of. There was nothing like
that, and they were an anomaly.

526
00:48:58.920 --> 00:49:04.960
They were considered, you know,
something, people that were psychotic, that

527
00:49:05.320 --> 00:49:09.760
were a part of peer pressure.
That I mean, those those girls were

528
00:49:09.760 --> 00:49:16.599
given The main two girls were given
fifty years and sixty years. I thought

529
00:49:17.119 --> 00:49:22.719
that in writing these books about teen
violence, I thought that it would be

530
00:49:22.840 --> 00:49:27.599
a cautionary tale for parents, for
anyone who's reading my work. I have

531
00:49:27.719 --> 00:49:30.960
a huge following, you know,
my readers are very into what I write.

532
00:49:31.440 --> 00:49:36.320
It's not just young people. And
there are young people in college who

533
00:49:36.400 --> 00:49:39.840
read these books and said, you
know, basically wow, like how does

534
00:49:39.880 --> 00:49:46.079
this happen? Or we can't believe
it? And now they have to worry

535
00:49:46.119 --> 00:49:51.880
about being in school and thinking that
a shooter could come in at any time,

536
00:49:51.920 --> 00:49:53.920
and what about all the students.
There was one student I talked to

537
00:49:55.039 --> 00:50:01.519
about campus shootings who in the interview
just said, yeah, we've had them.

538
00:50:01.599 --> 00:50:06.360
We had one of them on campus. We you know, but we

539
00:50:06.519 --> 00:50:10.880
just watched ourselves and were much more
cautious, like they're accepting it. It's

540
00:50:10.960 --> 00:50:16.239
crazy to me. It's genuinely crazy
to me, like how much has changed

541
00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:23.519
and how much teenagers and young adults
and kids have changed from what they used

542
00:50:23.599 --> 00:50:30.199
to be. It's really obviously a
serious issue. Has become furious when so

543
00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:37.119
many colleges have this going on,
when students are joining other agitators and just

544
00:50:37.639 --> 00:50:40.920
behaving a world where nobody feels safe
anymore, you know, as juveniles,

545
00:50:40.960 --> 00:50:45.559
and they feel they'll be tried as
juveniles even if they have committed murder.

546
00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:50.239
They feel it won't be it'll be
a short sentence. I just don't know

547
00:50:50.280 --> 00:50:55.360
where to go from here. However, I will say that I think people

548
00:50:55.400 --> 00:51:00.360
who read my book The Embraced or
my other book Crow Sacer, we'll start

549
00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:06.400
to look at what their teens are
doing much more so. We'll start to

550
00:51:07.840 --> 00:51:13.679
monitor, but also cheap scenes in
the house. You know, had Heather

551
00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:16.800
been monitored more so, she would
have been able to get out of the

552
00:51:16.880 --> 00:51:22.679
house as a teenager and just take
off. I know that that's something I

553
00:51:22.679 --> 00:51:29.960
couldn't do back in time, could
you. Oh absolutely not, absolutely not.

554
00:51:30.760 --> 00:51:38.400
And I grew up with someone that
could, and I remember she just

555
00:51:38.480 --> 00:51:42.519
run away. It was. You
know, she was never getting into like

556
00:51:42.559 --> 00:51:45.199
real trouble or anything, but she
would run away when she would get into

557
00:51:45.320 --> 00:51:50.280
it with her mom. And I
will never forget my mother. After having

558
00:51:50.400 --> 00:51:54.440
listened to my friend's mom cry and
be worried sick over her daughter, went

559
00:51:54.519 --> 00:51:58.199
up to my friend after she came
home and was like, you know what,

560
00:51:58.519 --> 00:52:02.199
I have to thank you because you
will never do what you've done.

561
00:52:02.960 --> 00:52:06.679
She will never act the way that
you do. And she was right.

562
00:52:07.320 --> 00:52:10.960
I never would. I never went
gallivanting off all over town. You know,

563
00:52:12.079 --> 00:52:14.719
my mother knew where I was.
If I was going to be out

564
00:52:14.760 --> 00:52:15.800
late, I called her and said, hey, I'm staying out late.

565
00:52:15.920 --> 00:52:19.719
You know, this is who I'm
with. And kids don't do that now.

566
00:52:20.079 --> 00:52:22.559
They go where they want, when
they want, and half the time

567
00:52:22.599 --> 00:52:25.440
the parents drop them off wherever and
it's okay, I'll see you whenever you

568
00:52:25.480 --> 00:52:30.159
decide to come home. It's like, no, your sixteen year old should

569
00:52:30.199 --> 00:52:34.800
be home by like nine o'clock and
safe, not out till two, three,

570
00:52:34.920 --> 00:52:38.760
four o'clock in the morning. And
again, this is what I say,

571
00:52:38.840 --> 00:52:45.559
it does start at home. There
is there's a responsibility that should be

572
00:52:45.760 --> 00:52:58.679
uncumbent on parents to watch to enforce
rules to even if there's not a law

573
00:52:59.039 --> 00:53:04.519
that is going after or these young
people, there should be parents that,

574
00:53:04.880 --> 00:53:10.519
like your mother have warned you,
have shown you what it is that can

575
00:53:10.599 --> 00:53:16.440
happen if you go down the wrong
path. And yet what's happening today has

576
00:53:16.440 --> 00:53:20.320
a lot to do with peer pressure. It's like, oh, okay,

577
00:53:20.519 --> 00:53:23.199
other people are doing it, I'll
join in. It's cool. I'm a

578
00:53:23.239 --> 00:53:30.159
cool person now. And I think
in the Embrace that is exactly what happened

579
00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:36.199
along, you know, with somebody
who felt who promised them, you know,

580
00:53:36.280 --> 00:53:39.440
immortality, and even though they really
didn't believe it, even though you

581
00:53:39.480 --> 00:53:45.119
know they question it seriously because this
could not happen, they went along with

582
00:53:45.159 --> 00:53:50.320
it anyway because they loved being in
the fantasy, because they loved the idea

583
00:53:50.440 --> 00:53:53.079
that they could get away with this. So I hope that people read it.

584
00:53:53.840 --> 00:53:59.880
I hope that people read Cross Sacrifice
as well and be this cautionary,

585
00:54:00.119 --> 00:54:06.119
cautionary tales as something that fourth of
them to monitor their kids even if they

586
00:54:06.119 --> 00:54:10.920
feel they shouldn't. Or Pamp and
I will have the links. They are

587
00:54:10.960 --> 00:54:16.679
available on Amazon to Crow Sacrifice and
the Embrace. The Embrace I just finished

588
00:54:16.679 --> 00:54:21.280
It is not only a phenomenal read, but it is a cautionary tale,

589
00:54:21.320 --> 00:54:25.880
and I really encourage parents and teenagers
to read it, you know, learn

590
00:54:25.960 --> 00:54:30.239
what can happen. You know,
obviously that is an extreme worst case scenario,

591
00:54:30.400 --> 00:54:36.559
but it's a very real scenario.
Yeah, and it's becoming more and

592
00:54:36.599 --> 00:54:43.039
more real these days with this violence
of people going in and shooting up everybody

593
00:54:43.039 --> 00:54:46.280
in Parkland, you know, and
the parents now not being able to do

594
00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:51.320
anything about it after the fact.
The punishment does not fit the crime,

595
00:54:52.039 --> 00:54:57.119
which also needs to change exactly.
And so these are the things. When

596
00:54:57.159 --> 00:55:01.079
I wrote these books back almost thirty
years ago, I truly thought parents would

597
00:55:01.679 --> 00:55:08.760
realize and look at these cautionary tales. But instead, parents who have a

598
00:55:08.880 --> 00:55:14.519
child that's off, they don't look
at it, they don't want to see

599
00:55:14.519 --> 00:55:19.519
it, and it's too late when
they've committed these acts of violence. So

600
00:55:21.079 --> 00:55:23.400
I think that's really what I wanted
to stay with you today, Courtney.

601
00:55:23.880 --> 00:55:30.320
That's really the message, and I
hope people listen to that message, and

602
00:55:30.559 --> 00:55:35.480
parents, you know, listen to
the fact that you can't be afraid to

603
00:55:35.519 --> 00:55:37.679
monitor your children and be aware of
what they're doing. You can't be afraid

604
00:55:37.719 --> 00:55:43.239
to be the parents. You know, it's not if there's something going on

605
00:55:43.280 --> 00:55:45.800
with your child, it's not necessarily
a reflection of you, And you can't

606
00:55:45.920 --> 00:55:50.079
be afraid to think that it's a
reflection of you and your parenting style.

607
00:55:50.199 --> 00:55:53.599
It just means that there's something going
on, and it very well could be

608
00:55:53.719 --> 00:55:58.800
an outside force that has nothing to
do with you. So you need to

609
00:55:58.840 --> 00:56:04.960
be aware of what is going on
with your children exactly. And I hope

610
00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:08.239
as they say that this message,
which I thought would get to people back

611
00:56:08.280 --> 00:56:13.960
in time and these things would stop
and people could see what happened with teenagers

612
00:56:14.000 --> 00:56:20.239
have done. I thought that that
would be something that would change the minds

613
00:56:20.280 --> 00:56:24.960
of parents, would get parents to
be more involved with their kids, understand

614
00:56:24.960 --> 00:56:29.199
that they have to be if they
can't just let their kids run wild.

615
00:56:29.480 --> 00:56:31.519
And instead we have this chaos now, and I think parents need to turn

616
00:56:31.559 --> 00:56:35.920
it around. I think that's the
only way this is going to turn around.

617
00:56:36.360 --> 00:56:39.320
That's it. I agree, I
absolutely agree there needs to be a

618
00:56:39.400 --> 00:56:45.679
change. As I said, I
will have the links to both books down

619
00:56:45.719 --> 00:56:50.360
below. You can get them on
Amazon. And thank you Afred Id for

620
00:56:50.440 --> 00:56:54.840
joining me today having this really powerful
conversation that I do think a lot of

621
00:56:54.840 --> 00:57:00.400
people need to hear. It's a
tough conversation and people need to be open

622
00:57:00.440 --> 00:57:06.880
to it. Parents need to really
listen to it because there are terrible things

623
00:57:06.880 --> 00:57:12.000
going on in the world and it
does start at home, so Afred idea.

624
00:57:12.039 --> 00:57:15.840
I thank you for bringing attention to
this well, thank you Courtney for

625
00:57:15.880 --> 00:57:22.920
having me on. And I really
appreciate the opportunity to try to influence parents,

626
00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:27.400
adults, to get them not to
be afraid of their kids and what

627
00:57:27.400 --> 00:57:30.400
they're doing. As you say,
that's the way this has to happen.

628
00:57:30.599 --> 00:57:34.599
That's the issue, and I appreciate
you having me on today, court Me.

629
00:57:34.639 --> 00:57:37.679
I really do. It's an honor
as always. As always, guys,

630
00:57:37.719 --> 00:57:42.000
thank you so much for listening and
I will see you in the next

631
00:57:42.079 --> 00:57:45.360
chapter of the Book of the Dead. Bye, guys much for listening to

632
00:57:45.440 --> 00:57:50.840
this chapter of the Book of the
Dead, and don't forget that you can

633
00:57:50.880 --> 00:57:54.519
always connect with us on Instagram,
you can connect with us on Twitter,

634
00:57:54.559 --> 00:58:00.519
and you can absolutely connect with us
on Patreon. We all so have a

635
00:58:00.639 --> 00:58:05.360
merch store as well that we have
frequent discount codes coming out for so that

636
00:58:05.400 --> 00:58:09.679
you guys can get March hand drawn
by myself at a better cost. We

637
00:58:09.760 --> 00:58:15.239
hope you have a lovely rest of
your week and just remember, please be

638
00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:22.039
kind and don't forget to always stay
safe, stay curious, and stay vigilant.

639
00:58:22.159 --> 00:58:36.559
Bye guys, Bye,