Levi's Eyes-An Interview with Aphrodite Jones

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Hi guys, I'm Courtney and I'm
Lisa, and welcome to the next chapter

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in the Book of the Dead,
brought to you by Darkcast Network Indie Podcasts

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with a Twist. Hi, guys, welcome to the next chapter. As

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you can tell, this is a
very special episode. In fact, it's

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a special bonus chapter because this is
an exclusive interview with a powerhouse in the

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community. Today, I'm sitting down
with Aphrodite Jones, best selling true crime

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author, investigative reporter, and television
host. She is here with us to

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celebrate the release of her new true
crime novel, Levi's Eyes. But before

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we get into that, we're going
to hear some details about her career and

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her long fight in shedding light on
the psyche of killers and exposing the ripple

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effects that every murder generates. Aphroditi, thank you so much for being here

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today. It is truly an honor. Thank you, Courtney. It's my

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honor. So obviously we are here
to celebrate Levi's Eyes. This new book

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that you wrote. It came out
on September twenty seventh, if I am

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correct, that's right, And before
we get into that, I would love

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to hear how did you get into
true crime? How did your career start?

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Unlike what you might think, I'm
going to say this was an accident

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for me, or a calling,
is what I like to call it.

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I was a professor down in Appalaysia
and I also did news broadcasting on the

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radio. And at that time a
woman was killed by an FBI agent,

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and because she was a quote hillbilly, nobody paid attention to it. And

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what I couldn't understand. I know
I was on the end of the world

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there in Appalasia, two and a
half hours from an airport, but I

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didn't understand, where's the news?
This happened in nineteen eighty nine, It's

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CNN's around everybody's Why isn't this being
covered? This is the first agent in

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the history of the FBI to admit
to murdering his informant. He copped a

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manslaughter plea, he was put in
prison. How could no one pay attention

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to it? So, having said
that, I decided I'm going to write

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a book. I got a hold
of the family, I got a hold

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of all the police, etc.
I did all the work I needed to

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do. Also got an agent because
I wrote the right proposal and At the

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end of that that book was published
and it became a movie for television called

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Betrayed by Love. Patricia Arquette played
the woman who was killed, and that

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was kind of the start of the
career. So my second book, which

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is Cruel Sacrifice, involved a ring
of girls who were lesbian, or maybe

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not lesbian, because one the girl
who was killed was twelve years old.

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One of the most horrific crimes ever
can't be really talked about. There's no

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TVs show about it, there's no
movie based on it because it's that horrific.

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And that book became a New York
Times bestseller out of the gate.

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So at that point in Courtney,
I had no choice but to continue with

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true crime. Truly, I know
it's a calling. I'm able to bring

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catharsis to the people who have suffered
the victims, and I'm also able to

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get information out of killers that I
don't know anyone else gets. For example,

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in Levi's eyes, Oh my God, people are reading and going this

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guy said this is you, like, oh what, how how does this

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happen? But an event, you
know. By the time I wrote my

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third book, which was all she
wanted, I've changed it to all he

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wanted. It was about a transgender
murder that happened in nineteen ninety two,

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and at that time the word transgender
was not in our vocabulary in this country

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at all. And they also add
at that time gay people wanted nothing to

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do with transgender people. Just f
yi okay. In other words, there's

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a Lilith fare which is for women. Transgender people were not invited or included

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in that. So Brandon Tina,
who is the centerpiece of this was murdered

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because she was a woman living as
a man. And in that story it

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became the movie Boys Don't Cry with
Hilary Swank. It launched her career at

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Academy Award. But at the time, even that movie didn't quite understand the

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essence of being transgender, so that
the girlfriend of Brandon was characterized as being

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gay, and the woman, Lanta
Tisdel, was brought out to Hollywood by

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the filmmakers Christine Bascham et cetera,
and when to see a preview screen name.

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When she saw it, she ran
out of the theater in tears,

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because again back then, nobody truly
understood what transgender it was. It wasn't

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a name. It wasn't a word. It technically is being transsexual, which

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I studied medical books for the book. Then once I wrote that and the

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boys dn't probably came out, and
you know, I kind of felt like

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I still wanted to walk away from
it because you don't have to tell you

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and you're doing this in your show. It's very dark, and especially if

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I'm writing a book, it's not
a SoundBite. I'm honestly involved with the

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people whose lives have been touched.
And you say ripple effects and the killers

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and the victims' families in that case
and for example, which I changed the

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name to all he wanted. Once
I figured out, I see this was

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really not a shit he It was
a hey that Brandon was was becoming or

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had become. There had been no
hormones or surgery though, so this is

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early days, you know. And
even once that happened, I realized this

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is a calling. I'm helping people. They're able to tell their story and

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make a difference with the story.
And you know, many people have someone

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murdered in their life and it just
goes unnoticed. I mean, let's face

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it, you can't write a book
that every single murder there ever was unfortunately.

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And so the victims and the stories
that I write understand that, you

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know, I make them understand that
you're going to be able to help other

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people with this, and they appreciate
that because it's also not just cathartic for

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them to talk about it, but
it's also gives them a sense of hope

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that they can make a difference rather
than living in victimhood for the rest of

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their lives. It's just hard not
to do. I mean, I get

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it, but you know, at
some point you have to have your life

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back, absolutely, and I think
what you're doing is so important. You

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are giving that voice to victims and
their families that would not have one otherwise,

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based on the work you do,
based on the books that you write,

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and it's I can only imagine how
truly difficult that is, you know,

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cloaking yourself in such darkness, because
obviously I have a taste of that

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doing the podcast and you know,
reading the court documents, reading the medical

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records, and you know, speaking
to victims' families, but it is not

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to the level that you do when
it with all the work that it takes

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to write the books that you write, because these are not fiction novels.

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This is real life, this is
you know, these are the families,

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and the law enforcement and and the
trials. This is a lot of dark,

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dark content. So how do you
kind of keep yourself from syncing into

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these terrible things and you know,
protecting your mental health. That's a good

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question. And I had to come
to terms with that when I was writing

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Curl Sacrifice, because at that time
I was still a professor, and I

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was writing this at night, and
I was writing through the night, and

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I got to a point where I'd
be writing seven days a week and I

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had no life. I wasn't even
brushing my teeth, which is insane.

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And when it was all over,
and again that was the most harrowing story

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I've ever dealt with, I realized, if I'm going to save myself,

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okay, and if I'm going to
maintain and be and be kind of stuck

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in this genre, if you will, I got to have a different life.

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So at five PM, I made
the rule, no more writing.

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Five pm. Writing is over weekends, no writing zero. Although I have

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to say, on Levi's eyes,
I made a couple exceptions because I was

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on a big deadline. Nonetheless,
very few exceptions and I've been writing that

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book for two plus years. I
just and in my other life, Courtney,

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I go out in boats, I
go on the beach, I take

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my walks, I go jogging and
do all. You know, I'm out

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with my friends. It's just a
cut it, you know. And the

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people who are closest to me,
no, I don't really want to talk

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about this stuff like read the books. They already know. They've read the

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book, they've seen me on twenty
twenty, they've seen my TV show whatever.

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I don't really like to dwell in
it when I'm not writing it and

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so or covering it. And so
that's really how I survived and having two

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personas if you will, you know, I'm one person when I'm in the

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crime world and a complete goofball when
I'm not. I love that. I

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love that you have these almost like
these this alter ego where you are Aphrediti

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Jones, the regular woman, and
then you're Aphroditi Jones, this true crime

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fighter justice getter. I love that, and it's it's very true for those

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out there that are interested in true
crime and interested in this line of work,

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you do so need that separation.
You need to protect your mental health,

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because it can be so easy to
have you spiraling exactly, and you

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know if you look at it.
For example, a huge level of suicide

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comes in a profession like being a
psychologist, psychiatrist, counselor why is that

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well, because you're taking in all
this negative energy and you're trying to help

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someone. But the more negative energy
you're taking in, the more it's affecting

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your psyche, whether it entes in
your dreams, it enters in your daylight

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thinking, you know, daydream So
again, you know, I, if

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I'm going to do this, which
I realized I was going to be having

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to do this, that was that
was my way out, you know.

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And again, I don't think about
it when I'm not writing. I don't

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think about it when and once the
book's done, I don't even want to

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think about I'll talk about it,
but I'm never looking at it again.

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I don't read it done like it's
done. I am a very meticulous writer,

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very perfectionist if you will, And
so I'll write a chapter over twenty

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times each chapter, I mean,
it's not uncommon for me to do that.

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And once that's been done, and
I've lived with it as long as

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I can possibly stand in the chapter's
over, I don't ever want to see

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it again. That makes a lot
of sense. I think once you get

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the words out and they are exactly
what you want to say, exactly what

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you need to say, it's like
you've purged it from yourself. It's gone

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totally. And purging is a good. Another thing I learned, and the

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way I learned to do this is
anybody who wants to be in the true

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crime field or feels that they'll wind
up in that, whether it's in law

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enforcement, whether it's in podcasting,
broadcasting, et cetera, or writing books,

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is that you know, I learned
a long time ago. Protect yourself,

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as you say, right, protect
yourself, find a way to just

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excommunicate yourself from the horrors of crime. You've got to do it or you

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will suffer. And I know because
I suffered with cool sacrifice. And then

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I fell back into it when I
wrote the book Read Zone, the San

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Francisco dogmalling Diane Whipple was murdered,
killed by two dogs and horror, horrifying

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story. And in that story I
wound up in that book, getting back

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into that vortex, and I almost
didn't pull myself out and that's when I

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realized, Okay, that's it,
that's it. I will give X amount

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of time to this, I will
give X amount of space to this in

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my life. And then I got
to have that other life. I've got

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to Absolutely, you have to have
you. I always like to say that

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you have to protect your peace,
and that's what you do by having that

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separation, that strict separation is protecting
your piece, which is so important.

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It is it truly, truly is
because like and then I talk about Carl

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Carlson, who's the subject matter of
my new book, Levi's Eyes. This

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is a man who killed his own
son. This is a man whose wife

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died in a fire, you know, thirty years prior, and he had

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gotten away with it until he was
finally sentenced, convicted and there was a

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jury trial in California. This is
somebody who is one of the darkest figures

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that I've dealt with for a long
period of time. I spoke to him

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for two years Courtney, five days
a week, for an hour every day,

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and taped all conversations with his permission, et cetera, which is unheard

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of before the trial, during the
trial, and after the trial. Who

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does that no criminal I know in
any event, all that dark energy from

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this man, I would literally shroud
myself in a room that was dark,

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it was only audio, and I
would have that dark room be the only

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place I talked to him. And
you know what I was going to say.

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When I did a PhD in literature, and one of the things you

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have to do is take qualifying exams, and those exams are a total of

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let's see, four hours ago,
twelve hours. So one of the things

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that you're taught in trying to,
you know, negotiate this because everything in

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anything that's ever been written in your
field of literature will be you will be

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asked about in those twelve hours.
In writing, people have said, just

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take everything that you just put together
for the first two hours, you get

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an an hour and a half break
in between, and throw it on the

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sidewalk. Forget it now, move
to the next, you know, area

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that you need to be the expert
in. And so that was another help

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to me, you know, to
be able to realize you could just yeah,

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leave it on the sidewalk, put
on a shelf. I don't need

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it's that's a great way I think
of doing things, and a great way

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of approaching someone like him, you
know, to protect your psyche and your

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piece. Speaking of Levi's eyes,
why this case, why did you decide

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to write about this one? Okay? So this is a case I covered

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on my show True Crime on ID, and so I was already familiar with

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it when he had just taken plea
deal admitting to not killing his son.

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By the way, he admitted to
seeing the truck drop on his son and

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walking away from the scene knowing that
his son would die. That's as best

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as he was going to get to
get a plea deal of fifteen years to

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life. Regardless, we find out
from the tapes of his second wife that

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no, no, no, he
admitted to her that he tipped the car

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over on his son. He had
a seven hundred thousand dollars insurance policy that

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he coaxed his son into taking out
a few weeks before the murder, and

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on the day Levi died, he
brought his son into a bank to get

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a will motorized, and Levi I
wrote a very short handwritten will that morning,

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saying I leave all my earthly possessions
and whatever assets I had to my

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father to hold in place for my
daughters because Levi had just gotten divorced.

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It was an ugly divorce, and
he felt that his ex wife would use

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the money for herself and not take
care of the girls. So that what

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that was about. It's very rare, very rare to have a parent kill

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a biological child or any child,
but in this case, for money.

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He wanted that money. His son
became a meal ticket for him, which

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was also the case with Levi's mother, Christina Carlson, who's the one who

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perished in the fire in nineteen ninety
one on New Year's Day. So,

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you know, I've had television stations
come from all over the world about this,

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Japan, Korea. People are shocked
that somebody is capable of this,

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00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:38.759
and it's one thing, active passion. You know, there's a fight,

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there's there's issue. No, there
was no fight. Levi happily went along

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and signed over that will on the
same day he was murdered. That's a

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00:16:48.919 --> 00:16:56.480
you're right. It is in the
cases I've covered where mothers or fathers kill

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their children, and it is so
rarely about money. And it's incredible to

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me the lengths that someone would go
to in regards to greed. Well and

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So here's the other thing too go
in this story, which makes it a

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00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:14.880
trope, Which makes it even more
important to me is as I started to

225
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research this, and remember I had
already covered it on my show in twenty

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fourteen, after he had coughed a
plea deal and was now in prison for

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the murder of his second degree homicide
of his son Levi. I was wondering,

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what's going to happen with Christina that
murder that happened on New Year's Day

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in nineteen ninety one. Are they
ever going to do anything about that?

230
00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:37.559
Because it was a closed case,
it was considered an accident, same as

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Levi's. Well, sure enough,
that case came to trial. It took

232
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many years, with a lot of
finagal legal finesse with it. At the

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end of the day, I realized, oh, I'm just in time to

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attend that trial. I'd been waiting, and in twenty twenty January of twenty

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twenty and February of twenty twenty,
I was out in California at his murder

236
00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:00.400
trial for first jury murder. He
was convicted of it by a jury in

237
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California, and the sentencing was on
March seventeenth, twenty twenty, and we

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all know what happened then, right, Yeah, the world's hut down,

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The world shutdown. And what did
he do, this sniveling creep his daughters

240
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who now he has two daughters who
he had now killed their brother Levi and

241
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killed their mother Christina. Okay,
they're going to be in the courtroom to

242
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give their victim impact statements, as
are Christina's family members, her father,

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00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:30.480
Christina's sister, et cetera. What
did he do? He claimed he had

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a fever. He felt like he
had a fever. And back in those

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early days, you know, if
somebody had a fever, you're like,

246
00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:41.440
stay away because it wasn't yet closed. Not everything was closed down. The

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courtroom was still open. People were
there, and I wasn't because I'd have

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to fly from New York across the
country, and I was like, you

249
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know what, I'm not getting on
a plane. I don't know what's going

250
00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:55.599
on here. Cruise ships, planes, this is all not So. I

251
00:18:56.200 --> 00:19:02.000
was there for the verdict, but
not for the sentencing. But he told

252
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me, because he kept calling it, you know, long after the sentencing,

253
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that you know it was my lawyer
suggested that I do that this way

254
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I would just watch it. I
could hear it from the holding cell.

255
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In other words, he wasn't going
to go out there and face his daughters

256
00:19:15.079 --> 00:19:21.440
or anybody else. He wasn't about
to listen to anything in person that his

257
00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:23.799
family members would say to him about
what he did to destroy their lives.

258
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And it shows just how much of
a coward he is by doing that.

259
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Think you took away someone so loved
and cherished, and you don't have the

260
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courtesy of doing the one thing that
might lessen a little bit of their pain,

261
00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:52.759
by facing them and allowing them to
tell you exactly how your actions impacted

262
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and will impact their lives exactly.
And the other thing, too, is

263
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not It's not often, but many
times the killer will say they're sorry to

264
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the victim's family, even if they
don't want to make complete guilt. Let's

265
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say I'm so sorry this happened.
You know, they didn't have that opportunity.

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There was no opportunity to get their
point across to him, which is

267
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the most important thing. But also
to see his face like did he look

268
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regretful, did he look like did
he look as though he you know,

269
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he regretted this, that he was
apologetic? No they didn't get to see

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00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:30.839
it because the coward that he is, sniveling as I call him, was

271
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sitting in the back room in a
holding cell, listening on a speaker,

272
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listening, as he says, for
all we know, he was tuned out,

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checked out. Good point, Courtney, because guess what when I asked

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him about the various statements of his
two daughters and his brother and others had

275
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testified, he tho, I'm not
sure what you know. I don't remember

276
00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:55.200
all of it, of course,
right, so who knows what he was

277
00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:57.599
actually listening to? And of course
he denied it, you know why,

278
00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:03.839
and whatever they had said, they're
exaggerating, and you know, they made

279
00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:06.759
a big deal out of this when
I never killed my son. I took

280
00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:08.920
a plea deal. I shouldn't have
taken a plea deal. So all of

281
00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:14.319
that, this story has what we
call in the business legs. So the

282
00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:22.240
fact that he had admitted to killing
Levi actually allowed the California Police Law Enforcement

283
00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:26.240
the DA in San Andreas, Calaberas
County, to open up the case against

284
00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:32.680
Christina. So that all of that
sat around for twenty five years and nothing

285
00:21:32.759 --> 00:21:36.359
was happening because he had her cremated
he moved out of town and went back

286
00:21:36.359 --> 00:21:38.720
to New York. And if you
remember nineteen ninety, it was the first

287
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day of ninety one, so all
those years ago. Once he left for

288
00:21:44.759 --> 00:21:48.880
New York, which he did immediately
after the memorial with his kids and his

289
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:53.920
dog, they didn't have the resources
in a small Calaberas county to go after

290
00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:56.960
him and fly people out to New
York to do further interviews. So there

291
00:21:57.039 --> 00:22:02.599
was fire. Investigators had started the
investigation. They believed he was guilty.

292
00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:04.920
He was interviewed in the beginning,
so was his daughter, Aaron, who

293
00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:10.000
was six years old at the time
of the fire. But they needed more,

294
00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:14.279
they needed more evidence, they needed
to try to pin him down.

295
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But now he's in New York,
he's upstate New York, and they don't

296
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:22.559
They're denied the funding, so it's
just sat there nothing. They just closed

297
00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:26.400
it as an accident and he was
paid because it was an accident. He

298
00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:32.839
was paid two hundred thousand dollars for
her life that he took it. It's

299
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so sad to look back and think
about all of the cases like this one

300
00:22:37.960 --> 00:22:42.920
that happened twenty thirty years ago,
where the resources weren't there where the technology

301
00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:49.519
wasn't there, and these people have
gotten away with it simply because law enforcement

302
00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:57.160
didn't have those resources. But the
fact that twenty five years after the fact,

303
00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:03.880
he finally got what was coming to
him. At least it finally happened

304
00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:08.119
and the family got that justice,
even though it took so long, they

305
00:23:08.200 --> 00:23:12.799
finally got their justice. And that
is what is so important to me and

306
00:23:14.119 --> 00:23:15.319
to the Book of the Dead.
And when we do these cases, it

307
00:23:15.319 --> 00:23:21.559
doesn't matter how long it takes.
Everyone deserves justice. Absolutely, one thousand

308
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percent. I agree. And you
know in that case, in this case,

309
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the family of Christina out in California, her sister in particular, collect

310
00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:36.920
Lussan was hounding the prosecutors all along
because something else happened in Carl's life,

311
00:23:36.920 --> 00:23:41.359
and that's called a fire, another
fire at his farm in New York,

312
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where his prized horses, Belgian horses
were died in the fire. And guess

313
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:52.240
what he did. He had heavy
insurance on those horses, which he upped

314
00:23:52.279 --> 00:23:56.279
the amount of two three weeks prior
to the fire, and then the fire

315
00:23:56.359 --> 00:24:00.359
happened. It was also deemed an
accident, so he killed is his prized

316
00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:04.319
horses. There's pictures in the book
of him sitting on that horse, Ginger,

317
00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:08.599
who he loved, and he took
to events, and I mean,

318
00:24:08.839 --> 00:24:15.079
think about it, killing a horse, killing these animals that are helpless.

319
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:18.400
It goes in line with he doesn't
care about men, women, children,

320
00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:26.319
animals, nothing, Everything is there
for him to devour and turn to money.

321
00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:30.640
And so when that happened, Christina's
sister went to the authorities again in

322
00:24:32.200 --> 00:24:36.319
Caliber's County and said, look,
here's another instance of an accident that's before

323
00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:41.279
Levi was killed, of an accident
that matches perfectly with this accident that our

324
00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:45.839
sister, my sister was in and
the fire, and they wouldn't reopen the

325
00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:52.279
case. It wasn't until Carlson took
the plea deal and admitted that he left

326
00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:56.960
his son to die, which he
did. This car he pushed the truck

327
00:24:57.039 --> 00:25:02.559
over on Levi. Okay, he
pushed the truck over and he admitted that

328
00:25:02.599 --> 00:25:07.000
to his second wife, which was
amazing because she was tremendous in getting that

329
00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:11.400
confession out of him. Anyway,
so once that happened, that's when California

330
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:15.559
opened it up again, and that's
when the extradition process came and he was

331
00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:19.240
sent to California, and now he's
going to face a trial. And now

332
00:25:19.480 --> 00:25:26.000
it was and here's the best part. The firing investigator of the lead investigator,

333
00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:30.640
Carl Kent, had done the original
investigation and there was plenty on the

334
00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:33.519
fire scene for them to do that. They realized, they found where the

335
00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:36.039
kerosene was, they knew it was
a double whore, all of this,

336
00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:41.079
and they had video recordings of the
scene, they had audio recordings with him

337
00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:48.799
in the interviews. And he saved
those boxes of materials because in that time

338
00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:55.759
period a case that was left already
considered to be not a criminal case,

339
00:25:55.799 --> 00:26:00.000
an accident, all those files would
have been thrown out within seven years.

340
00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:03.200
He retired in nineteen ninety seven.
The thing happened in nineteen ninety one.

341
00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:06.799
He took those files with him and
stored them in his basement in a locked

342
00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:11.480
facility, so the chain of custody
was clean because he was the lead investigator.

343
00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:15.599
And all of that were all the
various reports from all the firefighters,

344
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:19.920
etc. Tapes And had he not
done that, there would have been no

345
00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:22.480
justice. But this man got on
the stand and said, you know,

346
00:26:22.599 --> 00:26:30.039
I wasn't really kosher to take these
boxes of evidence, but I knew that

347
00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:33.559
someday in the future we're going to
need them, and I couldn't let them

348
00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:40.119
be destroyed. That's amazing. Yeah, yeah, So he's a hero in

349
00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:44.160
all this. If not for Karl
Kant, we would not have had justice

350
00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:49.119
here for Christina. Absolutely. The
fact that it's like he had almost like

351
00:26:49.160 --> 00:26:52.960
this got feeling like I'm going to
need these one day, right. I

352
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:59.160
remember, he knew that children were
there, and Carl saved his children out

353
00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:03.119
of that fire, So all three
children. The problem is he took by

354
00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:06.480
his own account, which I don't
necessarily believe, but by his own account,

355
00:27:06.519 --> 00:27:10.960
he grabbed Levi first. And what
did he do with Levi? Levi

356
00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:14.640
is about to turn six, Okay, so he knows kind of what's going

357
00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:18.119
on. He takes Levi and puts
him in his pickup truck and tells him

358
00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:22.440
to lay down on the floorboard and
don't look up. Now, if you

359
00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:26.359
have a burning house with your other
two children, two daughters, and your

360
00:27:26.359 --> 00:27:29.880
wife in the burning house, who's
going to take the time to walk out

361
00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:33.279
to your pickup truck, place your
son in the air, tell him to

362
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:37.079
lay down on the floorboard and close
the door. The house is burning Yeah,

363
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:41.480
there's there's there's a lot of questions
there, I don't think and Levi

364
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:47.799
didn't stay on the floorboard, that's
the thing. So what did Levi see?

365
00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:53.039
What did he know? Absolutely?
Absolutely what what did he see that

366
00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:59.599
day? And it makes me wonder
if if what he possibly saw could have

367
00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:06.480
contributed to his death later on?
And it did. It did because he

368
00:28:06.559 --> 00:28:11.880
confronted his father when he get old
enough once And that's the weird part of

369
00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:15.599
this though. After the confrontation and
after Carl denied it and Da da Dad,

370
00:28:15.319 --> 00:28:21.359
then he becomes close with his father
again. He knows what he saw,

371
00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:26.799
but Carl is such a shape shifter
that he's got his son exactly where

372
00:28:26.839 --> 00:28:30.839
he wants him. Their buddies again, they're working together. Everything's wonderful.

373
00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:34.960
Let me help you take out an
insurance policy for your girls. So how

374
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:40.319
does levit go along with this?
I think there's something to be said about

375
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:45.079
a child wanting to believe the best
in their parent. And it's so sad

376
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:51.400
the way that a parent can take
that on wavering love that a child has

377
00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:56.839
for them and twist it and manipulate
it and destroy it in such terrible ways.

378
00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:02.279
And that's the thing. I mean, that's really at the crux of

379
00:29:02.319 --> 00:29:06.359
this story. But the other thing
at the crux of this story, Courtney,

380
00:29:06.440 --> 00:29:10.599
is the fact that I had this
unfettered access to this murderer for two

381
00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:12.920
years, and because of COVID that
was the second year, because after he

382
00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:17.720
was sentenced, he was stuck in
the Caliberis County jail because no one was

383
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:21.960
moving anybody around. And so because
he's in the jail for another nine months,

384
00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:26.200
he has complete access to the phones. And so we're talking five years

385
00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:27.720
a week. Why is that different
than if you're in prison. Well,

386
00:29:27.759 --> 00:29:32.119
if you're in prison, just you
understand because I also speak to prisoners.

387
00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:34.440
I've gone into prisons, done those
interviews. I have phone conversations that are

388
00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:37.200
recorded. But in a prison,
you've got a lot of people, So

389
00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:41.880
people are waiting online for those phones. Right in a jail where he was

390
00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:47.799
stuck, people come in because they
were drunk, because of some drunk driving

391
00:29:47.880 --> 00:29:51.559
or whatever. For one night,
you're not living in the jail, but

392
00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:55.359
he was. So he was the
rock star of the jail and he had

393
00:29:55.400 --> 00:29:59.359
all the access to everything because nobody
else was really using these phones all day

394
00:29:59.359 --> 00:30:03.599
long. And so we would have
these four or fifteen minute conversations because that's

395
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:10.640
what you're allowed. And so through
all of that, this man's bizarre mentality

396
00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:15.240
I was able to extract. And
so when you read the book, you

397
00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:21.160
see it from some of it from
his bizarre perspective, and then you also

398
00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:26.799
hear the things he said that will
make your head spin. Okay, people

399
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:30.039
think they know this story. It
has been done on TV twenty twenty,

400
00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:33.000
Dateline, et cetera, et cetera, my show, a lot of shows,

401
00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:40.720
but it's not the same as getting
into this psychopath's heat. And that's

402
00:30:40.759 --> 00:30:45.960
what I feel I've been able to
accomplish here in the hopes that if you

403
00:30:45.079 --> 00:30:48.880
think somebody's like this in your life, perhaps you kind of get away from

404
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:55.319
him or see something because that anybody
said something or done something when the horses

405
00:30:55.319 --> 00:30:59.119
were killed, when Christina was killed, maybe Levi I would be alive.

406
00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:07.079
And that almost leads me into my
next question, how or why do you

407
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:12.359
think he was so willing to talk
to you and tell you everything? Because

408
00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:18.839
he is a narcissist, which is
a big characteristic of a psychopath, and

409
00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:23.839
in his mind, any attention is
good attention. And also you have to

410
00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:27.559
understand I know how to draw somebody
out. So I'm not going to point

411
00:31:27.559 --> 00:31:32.079
fingers at him. I'm gonna let
him tell me his story, because in

412
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:37.240
his story he is so insane that
none of it adds up. He's saying,

413
00:31:37.240 --> 00:31:40.799
well, you know, I didn't
if I wanted to kill my wife

414
00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:42.400
or money in the fire, I
could have left my children in there too,

415
00:31:44.359 --> 00:31:47.000
and then I would have collected double
the money because he had insurance policies

416
00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:52.880
out of those children. I mean, who says this Not a good father,

417
00:31:52.039 --> 00:31:56.519
that's for sure. No, not
a good father. A monster.

418
00:31:56.799 --> 00:32:01.759
He's a monster, absolutely, an
absolute monster. And it is so amazing

419
00:32:01.880 --> 00:32:09.160
that Levi got justice and everyone got
justice, that family got justice, because

420
00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:16.079
at the end of the day,
the fact that he got away with murdering

421
00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:22.519
his way for twenty five years is
astounding, yep. But the fact that

422
00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:28.440
now he can no longer hurt his
other children, his grandchildren, his family

423
00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:35.079
members, his animals, all for
greed or for any other reason he wants

424
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:38.599
to come up with in his mind, is so powerful. It is,

425
00:32:38.920 --> 00:32:42.680
and it's and you know, you
just wish, thank god he's there.

426
00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:44.920
He still thinks he's going to get
out, by the way, he still

427
00:32:44.920 --> 00:32:47.759
writes to me, and he wants
my help in getting them out. Now.

428
00:32:47.799 --> 00:32:51.839
The other weird thing, his second
wife is the one who wore a

429
00:32:51.880 --> 00:32:54.680
wire and trapped him into confession.
There was no evidence about Levi's death.

430
00:32:54.920 --> 00:32:59.079
It was ruled an accident. He
was cremated just the same way Christina was

431
00:32:59.079 --> 00:33:02.559
cremated, so there's no evidence the
other a truck fell on him. So

432
00:33:02.599 --> 00:33:07.599
the only way to get him arrested
was to have him confess something to her.

433
00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:14.279
So she wore a wire and she
was able to draw out slowly over

434
00:33:14.359 --> 00:33:17.519
a series of five different times that
she met with him and taped conversations because

435
00:33:17.559 --> 00:33:21.839
at that point they were getting divorced. She was realized she was living with

436
00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:24.279
a killer. And the other thing
she realized and found out from a private

437
00:33:24.319 --> 00:33:28.839
eye, is that he had taken
out life insurance policies on their two granddaughters,

438
00:33:28.839 --> 00:33:34.319
on Levi's daughters, so they were
going to be next one of them

439
00:33:34.359 --> 00:33:39.119
was going to have an accident.
These children. It is amazing the things

440
00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:45.519
that it is astounding, The things
that he was capable of doing, its

441
00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:49.799
mind blowing. And the thing is, Courtney, what's even more mind blowing

442
00:33:49.880 --> 00:33:52.440
is remember he gets to go to
New York. He winds up having a

443
00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:58.359
child. He gets married to Cindy
Best, he has a child with her.

444
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:01.680
Okay, so there are blended family. So he gets to have twenty

445
00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:07.119
five years of a new family.
He's a new man. And while the

446
00:34:07.160 --> 00:34:13.599
horses burn and die, nobody suspects
anything because it's a barnfire. Barnfires happened,

447
00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:17.159
you know, fairly frequently. I
discovered with the hay going up in

448
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:22.599
flames. But now when there's horse
is in there, no, So he

449
00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:25.039
gets away with it all. He
gets away with everything. He's had a

450
00:34:25.119 --> 00:34:30.960
whole new life. And in that
new life he's still so demented and twisted,

451
00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:35.519
and a lot of stuff went on
it. I don't want to give

452
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:39.199
it away, but I will say
this. He had he liked to kill

453
00:34:39.320 --> 00:34:47.159
animals. There's a real twisted,
bizarre element to this psychopath. And so

454
00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:51.199
to answer your question why do you
want to talk to me? One is

455
00:34:51.239 --> 00:34:53.000
he wants to convince me he didn't
do this. He didn't do any of

456
00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:57.719
this. This was not him.
And the other was he loves the attention.

457
00:34:57.920 --> 00:35:00.440
He just doesn't even care. I'll
tell you anything. And lastly,

458
00:35:00.519 --> 00:35:04.079
I know how to draw things out. So we're talk to him about his

459
00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:08.719
parents and his father and that relationship
and his relationship with Levi. So as

460
00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:13.679
I started to gain information and knowledge
of this guy, I realized that there

461
00:35:13.760 --> 00:35:17.679
was he never felt he was enough, and part of it was not just

462
00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:22.679
greed, but he wanted to be
rich and famous, and so that was

463
00:35:22.760 --> 00:35:28.039
the concept. I'm going to remember
too. Two hundred thousand dollars back in

464
00:35:28.119 --> 00:35:32.719
nineteen ninety one is an equivalent of
a million and a half dollars today,

465
00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:37.320
because that was almost a four million
dollars there, and back then, you

466
00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:40.840
know money doubles every seven years or
something, so I think it would have

467
00:35:40.840 --> 00:35:44.440
been a million and a half dollars
that he collected back then. It's a

468
00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:49.679
fortune he hit a lot of and
now he's going to be making himself into

469
00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:54.559
a huge success with that money.
But that didn't happen. Good. Yeah,

470
00:35:54.559 --> 00:35:58.960
as you said, he got to
live this this whole new life,

471
00:35:59.280 --> 00:36:05.880
be this potshot guy that he thought
he was for twenty five years. Kill

472
00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:10.679
his first wife, kill his horses, kill his son, probably kill one

473
00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:19.599
of his grandchildren next. When if
the resources were there, none of it

474
00:36:19.599 --> 00:36:24.039
would have happened. It would have
stopped after the first that's right, it

475
00:36:24.039 --> 00:36:29.719
would have stopped with Christina, and
it would have given that family justice then

476
00:36:30.159 --> 00:36:34.760
rather than justice served cold thirty years
later. You know. I mean,

477
00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:37.440
so they've had they had to suffer
for thirty years thinking and most of the

478
00:36:37.480 --> 00:36:43.280
time until he actually killed Levi and
there was proof through Cindy Best, his

479
00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:46.559
second wife, that he was going
to be charged, and he was charged

480
00:36:46.599 --> 00:36:51.960
and convicted of that murder. They're
thinking the whole time, nothing's going to

481
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:55.039
happen. They're waiting for all these
years and nobody's doing anything. Well,

482
00:36:55.039 --> 00:37:00.840
there was nothing to do. He
had her cremated and she died smoke inhalation.

483
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:02.519
And you know, he had boarded
up the window of the bathroom that

484
00:37:02.599 --> 00:37:08.840
she was in when she died in
the fire, and she helped him board

485
00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:12.239
it up. It's kind of like
Levi. He helped with the car.

486
00:37:13.960 --> 00:37:16.960
She helped him board it up with
seventeen nails, and he made sure her

487
00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:21.559
habit was at two pm she took
a bath, so he made sure she

488
00:37:21.679 --> 00:37:24.440
was in the bathroom, in the
bathtub, and the most vulnerable possible position.

489
00:37:24.800 --> 00:37:29.400
You're nude, your doors closed,
you're in the bathtub, the window

490
00:37:29.480 --> 00:37:34.719
that you could escape from is nailed
shut with the plywood. And this is

491
00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:38.320
when the house went up in flames. Carol doesn't know how it happened.

492
00:37:38.480 --> 00:37:42.280
It could be that a light fell
on kerosene, that fell on the floor.

493
00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:46.360
I mean, the various iterations of
how he starts to explain that fire,

494
00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:50.639
and also how he tries to explain
away, Oh, we took out

495
00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:53.679
life insurance on Christina months before this
happened. No, it was like seventeen

496
00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:58.039
days before it happened. I mean, and there's a record of that.

497
00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:00.039
Yeah, and there's a record of
that. He's got, you know,

498
00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:06.920
in his mind, you forgot that
happens so long ago that that's over in

499
00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:12.440
his mind. That's that's over.
Nobody's going to say anything about that anymore.

500
00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:16.400
This is part of the psych psychopathy
of this man. Like he's forgotten

501
00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:20.480
about it, he's left it in
the past, He's onto his next victim.

502
00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:25.400
It's it's bizarre because again, it's
not like a serial killer who is

503
00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:31.400
acting out of some demented element in
their mind and going after strangers. No,

504
00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:37.119
he's using his own family members as
a meal ticket. Yeah, it's

505
00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:42.440
it's crazy to me. The fact
that he can act like the deaths of

506
00:38:42.559 --> 00:38:46.760
Christina and the horses and all of
that. It's it's in the past,

507
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:53.599
it happened whatever, it's how it's
it's the callousness with which he thinks like

508
00:38:53.679 --> 00:39:00.800
that, which is almost more baffling
to me. That this was someone that

509
00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:06.800
you were supposed to love and cherish
and promised to love and take care of,

510
00:39:07.639 --> 00:39:10.639
and you threw her away as if
she doesn't matter because you wanted a

511
00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:15.599
paycheck. Yeah yeah, and your
own son, and your own son,

512
00:39:15.880 --> 00:39:22.199
you threw him away, someone that
loved and trusted you and essentially forgave you

513
00:39:22.280 --> 00:39:27.760
with the thing that he suspected you
of exactly, and you threw that away

514
00:39:27.800 --> 00:39:31.039
for a paycheck. Yep, for
a fortune. Because again, now,

515
00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:37.119
seven hundred grand in two thousand and
eight when that happened, is seven hundred

516
00:39:37.159 --> 00:39:38.880
thousand dollars is a lot to anybody, but for him, who never made

517
00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:43.800
a real living, he struggled with
all these crappy jobs. Here we go,

518
00:39:43.880 --> 00:39:45.480
and he went into business. He
went into the duck business. And

519
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:52.079
there's a whole level of other insanity
that goes on in that business when it

520
00:39:52.119 --> 00:39:54.480
falls, when it winds up going
under. I don't want to give it

521
00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:59.679
all away. But I will say
that even that people think they know this

522
00:39:59.719 --> 00:40:04.239
story, I can only tell you
that you do not know anything but the

523
00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:07.519
tip of that iceberg. Because these
fires, these these things that occurred,

524
00:40:09.159 --> 00:40:15.119
you get to see what's behind it
just a little bit, and you get

525
00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:21.199
to see how he handles his wife, his daughters in explaining and justifying things

526
00:40:21.239 --> 00:40:23.360
away if there is a question.
But he's able to do that in an

527
00:40:23.360 --> 00:40:30.400
insidious way so that they don't even
know he's justifying anything. That's what's interesting

528
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:36.920
about this man, how he's able
to manipulate and connive and create that whole

529
00:40:36.920 --> 00:40:44.280
new family that thinks he's wonderful.
And his kids, who were also the

530
00:40:44.360 --> 00:40:47.320
daughters told laid down on the bottom
of the floorboard in the car in a

531
00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:53.199
California fire. Clearly they forgave him
too, like, no, that was

532
00:40:53.320 --> 00:40:58.199
an accident, and YadA YadA,
and we're good. We love daddy.

533
00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:00.840
Ya'ma daddy's girl, Bobby, and
the youngest one, Katie was a daddy's

534
00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:07.000
girl. Well you're not even thinking
about what happened to your mother. Why

535
00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:12.719
he got you out, but he
couldn't get your mother out of a bathroom.

536
00:41:13.800 --> 00:41:19.320
So It's just it's very interesting that
part of this the psychopathy that I

537
00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:25.880
was able to capture. It is
insane the details that he provided you with

538
00:41:27.400 --> 00:41:34.159
so willingly. And for everyone out
there, I really truly encourage you to

539
00:41:34.280 --> 00:41:37.920
pick up Levi's Eyes. You can
get it on Amazon and we'll put those

540
00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:42.679
links down below for you. Guys. Thank you. It is definitely a

541
00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:46.199
book you want to you want to
check out. It is you If you

542
00:41:46.239 --> 00:41:51.360
want a real look inside the mind
of a killer, this is the this

543
00:41:51.400 --> 00:41:53.519
is the book you need to read. Well, thanks for saying that.

544
00:41:53.559 --> 00:41:57.840
I appreciate that it was. You
know, this was four years of my

545
00:41:57.960 --> 00:42:01.360
life. Never have I taken that
long to actually write a book. Typically

546
00:42:01.400 --> 00:42:07.199
I can do that much much faster, but this just it called for it.

547
00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:10.119
Because I had two years of listening
to this killer. I couldn't start

548
00:42:10.119 --> 00:42:14.360
writing until I got all that information. I tended the trial, and then

549
00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:16.880
of course there's three thousand pages of
documents that I have, and you know,

550
00:42:16.960 --> 00:42:22.079
police reports, court transcripts, and
preliminary trial and yeah, I just

551
00:42:22.039 --> 00:42:25.119
the amount of information that I had
to comb through in order to tell this

552
00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:30.119
story. On another level, people
who want to write your crime or want

553
00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:32.920
to be involved in it, you
got to understand number one, forget about

554
00:42:32.920 --> 00:42:36.400
how you have to comb through it. First of all, you have to

555
00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:43.320
get it absolutely absolutely dissipation of all
the you know, I got participation of

556
00:42:43.360 --> 00:42:46.199
the sister Collette Busson did interviews,
the brother Mike Carlson, did interviews,

557
00:42:46.920 --> 00:42:52.719
the defense attorney one of them,
did interviews. The lead detective in New

558
00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:55.400
York did interviews. So I had
all of that, but that you've got

559
00:42:55.440 --> 00:43:01.480
to convince people that this is going
to be something worthwhile. And then after

560
00:43:01.480 --> 00:43:05.039
you've done that, but you've got
to get all the documents. And court

561
00:43:05.119 --> 00:43:09.000
documents are about two dollars a page
transcripts, so put that math together.

562
00:43:09.079 --> 00:43:14.400
If it's a three week, four
week trial, you know you're literally dealing

563
00:43:14.480 --> 00:43:19.519
with thousands of pages. And so
there are so many nuances yere to get

564
00:43:19.519 --> 00:43:22.599
the police to cooperate with you,
to get the police to hand you over

565
00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:25.960
police files, audio files that have
been entered into evidence, and getting all

566
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:29.840
of that. So I was able
to do that because I've done it for

567
00:43:29.880 --> 00:43:35.280
thirty years. But it ain't easy. It's not easy. I can fully

568
00:43:35.320 --> 00:43:38.039
attest to that. It is not
easy. It is expensive, it is

569
00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:45.840
hard to because obviously you have to
speak to these family members and the victims'

570
00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:50.119
family members or the victims if they
are fortunate enough to have survived, you

571
00:43:50.159 --> 00:43:53.559
know, you you can't just come
at them with, hey, I want

572
00:43:53.559 --> 00:43:59.960
to write a book on your trauma. You know, it's there's a specific

573
00:44:00.199 --> 00:44:02.599
way of going about things. There's
a specific way of having to go through

574
00:44:02.599 --> 00:44:06.920
all of these court records and the
court documents and the autopsy records and all

575
00:44:06.920 --> 00:44:10.800
of that, and it's it is
a lot of work. It is a

576
00:44:10.920 --> 00:44:21.360
true labor of passion trying to tell
the story in a way that does justice

577
00:44:21.960 --> 00:44:27.079
to the families and for the families. And I think that's part of the

578
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:30.920
problem with some true crime is that
it's not done in an ethical way where

579
00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:36.199
the victims and their families are at
the forefront. And you know that,

580
00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:39.119
right And I hear what you're saying, and I know you know, true

581
00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:44.280
crime has become entertainment, and I
don't believe in that. I believe,

582
00:44:44.440 --> 00:44:46.800
if anything, you can call it
infotainment, as long as you're getting a

583
00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:50.880
message out of it that's going to
help you make this world a safer place,

584
00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:54.360
make you more aware of warning signs, you know, for example,

585
00:44:54.400 --> 00:44:59.960
domestic violence. Christina suffered domestic violence
and hit it. There are many women

586
00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:02.360
and that are victims of domestic violence
that wind up getting murdered. I covered

587
00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:06.480
stories like that, but yet people
have seen signs of it, but they

588
00:45:06.519 --> 00:45:09.559
ignore it because they're afraid. Maybe
you won't be afraid. Maybe you'll see

589
00:45:09.559 --> 00:45:13.559
something and say something. Maybe you'll
figure out a way to get your sister

590
00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:16.400
extracted from the marriage. Not that
persistent and try. I'm not saying you

591
00:45:16.440 --> 00:45:21.840
can do it, but there's got
to be a lesson in the story,

592
00:45:22.119 --> 00:45:25.800
and there's got to be something positive
that you can take away from this darkness.

593
00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:30.480
And that's always my goal. I
mean, that's what I write with

594
00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:35.119
that keeps me going through the story, that keeps me going for four years

595
00:45:35.159 --> 00:45:38.719
on a particular case, because I'm
always keeping in mind that I am not

596
00:45:38.800 --> 00:45:44.639
sensationalizing this. I am telling this
as it happened, from the voices of

597
00:45:44.719 --> 00:45:49.840
the people who experienced it, and
recreating the dialogue at the same time based

598
00:45:49.880 --> 00:45:52.679
on the interviews I've done so that
I know, or court transcripts or police

599
00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:57.719
reports or depositions, so that I
know that I'm being true to what actually

600
00:45:57.800 --> 00:46:04.159
happened. Absolutely, that's what's so
important, and that's what makes you different

601
00:46:04.519 --> 00:46:09.920
from you know, someone that found
a case went cash grab and wrote a

602
00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:14.199
book about it or created a podcast
around it, or whatever the case may

603
00:46:14.280 --> 00:46:16.480
be. And that's something that we
try and do here is there is a

604
00:46:16.599 --> 00:46:21.239
lesson in every case that we present. It is handled with care and with

605
00:46:21.320 --> 00:46:25.039
as much love as we can give
because these are real people, these are

606
00:46:25.079 --> 00:46:31.239
real tragedies. And if I can
help make someone safe or safer, then

607
00:46:31.239 --> 00:46:36.840
that's what's that's what is what we
are going to do. So that's what

608
00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:43.280
makes you different, and it makes
you different as well, because again,

609
00:46:43.719 --> 00:46:47.159
you know, news tends to sensationalize
everything. It's just the way it is.

610
00:46:47.400 --> 00:46:50.360
You know, people don't want to
hear good news, they don't want

611
00:46:50.360 --> 00:46:54.239
to be they just they want the
surface. Give me the surface. Okay,

612
00:46:54.360 --> 00:46:57.480
this this, this, and this
is how horrible. Oh my god,

613
00:46:57.519 --> 00:47:01.039
thank god it wasn't me. They
don't I really don't understand realize what

614
00:47:01.039 --> 00:47:06.440
the ripple effects of any particular crime
war on how far that goes, and

615
00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:09.719
it can go for generations as well, friends, family, coworkers. So

616
00:47:09.960 --> 00:47:15.760
all these people are devastated, especially
when they don't even know it's a murder,

617
00:47:15.800 --> 00:47:19.840
and then later they discover it's a
murder, and now they're living with

618
00:47:19.960 --> 00:47:22.119
They've been spending all this time with
this person. As in Cyndy Best,

619
00:47:22.159 --> 00:47:27.360
she's married to this guy. She's
sleeping next to a killer. I think

620
00:47:27.400 --> 00:47:30.400
about that, and the police and
her PI are saying, just stay there

621
00:47:30.400 --> 00:47:34.079
so you can get more information,
just stay with him, and she stayed

622
00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:36.920
as long as she could possibly stand
it. But after a while she's sleeping

623
00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:39.400
with scissors and a knife under her
bed and nunchucks and she can't do it

624
00:47:39.440 --> 00:47:45.679
anymore. Absolutely, absolutely, it
has been such an honor having you on

625
00:47:46.639 --> 00:47:52.239
talking about your career, talking about
your latest book. As I said,

626
00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:57.840
that link will be down below.
I really really encourage you guys to pick

627
00:47:57.880 --> 00:48:05.800
it up. It is such an
enlightening read, and I really hope that

628
00:48:06.159 --> 00:48:12.320
you all have gotten something out of
this interview with Aphrodite. It is the

629
00:48:12.800 --> 00:48:15.519
approach that I will have with the
cases that I cover in the future will

630
00:48:15.559 --> 00:48:21.320
be different based on this conversation because
I have learned so much in the short

631
00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:24.719
time that I have spent with you, and thank you. I appreciate that

632
00:48:25.280 --> 00:48:30.599
you're welcome so guys, you know
that I will have links down below if

633
00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:36.320
you head to our website, we
will have attached a little biography on Aphrodite

634
00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:38.400
so you can learn a little bit
more about her, learn about her television

635
00:48:38.440 --> 00:48:45.159
show which is on Amazon Prime.
Yes, yes, so that will all

636
00:48:45.199 --> 00:48:50.800
be there for you. I hope
you guys enjoyed this special special episode.

637
00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:54.559
I know I did recording it,
and we will see you all in the

638
00:48:54.599 --> 00:48:59.119
next chapter. Thank you so much, Afredite for being here with me today.

639
00:48:59.480 --> 00:49:01.960
Thank you, we have some pleasure. As always, we will see

640
00:49:01.960 --> 00:49:07.760
you next time. Bye, guys, thank you so much for listening to

641
00:49:07.840 --> 00:49:12.199
this chapter of the Book of the
Dead. And don't forget that you can

642
00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:15.880
always connect with us on Instagram,
you can connect with us on Twitter,

643
00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:22.239
and you can absolutely connect with us
on Patreon. We also have a merch

644
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:25.880
store as well that we have frequent
discount codes coming out for so that you

645
00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:31.000
guys can get merch hand you're on
by myself at a better cost. We

646
00:49:31.119 --> 00:49:36.440
hope you have a lovely rest of
your week, and just remember, please

647
00:49:36.519 --> 00:49:42.840
be kind and don't forget to always
stay safe, stay curious, and stay

648
00:49:42.920 --> 00:49:45.239
vigilant. Bye guys, Bye bye.