A Call To Action-A Round Table Discussion In the Death of Alex VanDalsen

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Alex van Dolson, Alex van Dalson, Alex Vandalson, Alex Vandalsen, Alex

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Vandalson. Hello, I'm Ashley the
host of Fuck That, and today I

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want to discuss a case that I
covered last December on my podcast about the

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murder of Alex Vandalson. Myself,
along with some other amazing podcasters, have

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covered Alex's story, and in light
of recent events, we wanted to bring

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this case up again and have an
open discussion together. Alex's mother, Jennifer,

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has been fighting for Alex's justice since
February of twenty twenty one. But

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before I get into that, I
want to take a second to talk about

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Alex. Alexander Blake Vandalson was born
on December twentieth of nineteen ninety nine,

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and Alex was a young compassion person. Alex was trans, and while this

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should have absolutely no impact on how
Alex's case was handled, I think unfortunately

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we are all way too familiar with
the discrimination, hatred, and violence that

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the trans community faces every single day. Alex was found in the snow,

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miles away from his home, deceased
from what the police stated was a suicide

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by a self inflicted gunshot wound.
However, Jennifer and every single one of

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us that have covered his case and
that you're going to hear from today are

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certain that Alex was murdered. Alex's
body was found in a position that I

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can only describe as very obviously posed. Alex's legs were neatly crossed over the

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ankles, and his hands were tucked
into his pockets. Now, this obviously

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makes me consider if Alex did in
fact shoot himself in the head, how

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would he have gotten his hands cozied
into his pockets afterwards? And if that

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isn't enough to make you think something
isn't right here, let's talk about the

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bodycam footage briefly. We have all
personally reviewed the bodycam footage, and notes

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that I specifically have on it clearly
demonstrate that even officers on scene thought that

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Alex was murdered. In footage timestamped
thirteen twenty one eighteen, the officer whose

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bodycam footage was being recorded says,
they've placed him here. He was killed

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somewhere else, that's my guess.
The responding officer says, his hands are

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in his pockets, that's weird.
At thirteen twenty one point fifty an officer

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approaches and asks self inflicted. The
same officer who's recording on bodycam says no.

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The other officer says, that's not
what I wanted to hear, and

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then the officer whose bodycam was being
recorded said, no, sorry, it's

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going to be a homicide. It
looks like they dumped him here. So

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how is it that we went from
there to the case being closed erroneously as

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suicide. I think we all have
our theories, but of course they are

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just that. But I would like
you all to consider a large problem that

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we have in America today. Discrimination
and mistreatment by law enforcement agencies towards individuals

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based on their sexual orientation or gender
identity continue to be widespread issues within LGBTQ

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communities. This kind of bias undermines
effective law enforcement by eroding trust, hampering

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communication, and impeding the ability of
officers to adequately protect and serve these communities.

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Although a variety of state, local, and federal regulations offer some safeguards

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against specific types of discrimination, the
United States as a whole lacks a comprehensive

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federal law that uniformly bans discrimination on
the grounds of action, ual or perceived

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sexual orientation and gender identity. We
are still seeing so many cases across the

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country in which transgender people are victims
of crime and law enforcement agencies misgender them

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both internally and in news reports,
and this alienates the victim, the victim's

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friends, and the victim's family.
And I can't help but think that this

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implicit bias is hampering law enforcement's ability
to successfully solve the investigation. How can

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you do something right if you're going
into it with bias? And you know

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what this happened in Alex's case in
bodycam footage. Even after police learn that

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Alex is a trans mail, they
still refer to Alex using his dead name,

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and they misgender him time and time
again, and they do it in

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the police reports. And I just
want you to ask yourself, why what

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does this mean? This tensional bias, even after somebody dies, this blatant

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lack of respect, What does it
mean? And where does it come from?

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This month, Jennifer received a response
to her request to reopen the investigation

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into Alex's death, and we are
going to discuss those details during our discussion

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later in the episode, But before
the discussion begins, I want to end

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this introduction with something Jennifer said to
me about Alex. While I was putting

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together my episode for his case last
year, I asked Jennifer if she could

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tell the world about Alex, what
would she say. Jennifer said, quote,

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Alex was a goofy kid, very
friendly. Nobody was a stranger.

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He even knew all of our delivery
people by name. He spoke to them

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all the time. He was always
trying to help someone, and he'd give

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them the shirt off his back if
they needed it, even if they were

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perfect strangers. Hello, I am
Ashley from Fuck That and you can find

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my episode on Alex wherever you get
your podcasts. It is episode seventeen.

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Hi I'm CJ with Beyond the Rainbow
True Crimes of the LGBTQ. You can

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find my episode of Alex on season
eight episode two. Hey I'm Courtney Fenner.

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I am one half of an Afarious
Nightmare. We covered Alex van Dalson

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in season four, episode one titled
he Always Sang Justice for Alex van Dalson.

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Hi I'm Courtney, one half of
the Book of the Dead podcast.

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We covered Alex's case on chapter fifty
eight, a Search for Answers the death

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of Alex Vandalsen, which you can
find wherever you get your podcasts. Hi,

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I'm Rob the host of the Criminal
Activity podcast. We covered Alex's episode

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on episode one, which can be
found wherever you get your podcasts. Thank

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you so everyone for coming together to
recover this case. Essentially, we wanted

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to have a roundtable discussion based on
new information that has come out. Essentially,

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Jennifer has not gotten any help from
local law enforcement, so we are

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hoping to come together to rediscuss the
case. And really our goal in all

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of this is to raise awareness,
get more attention on this case for Jennifer,

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for Alex, and we're hoping that
by doing so, we can get

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this case reopened and looked at it
the way it should have been from the

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get go. If you want further
information on this case, please go back

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and listen to each of our episodes. We each covered the case from different

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perspectives and it'll give you a really
good idea of exactly what happened. Something

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that was obvious to each and every
one of us when we covered the case

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is that this case was very obvious
that this was a homicide, but it

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was immediately deemed a suicide case.
Closed, and there wasn't a proper investigation

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looking into the possibility that this was
a homicide, and that is unfortunately something

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that's common. It is obvious that
there is a lot of bias in this

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case based on the fact that Alex
was a transgender male, and this is

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an area where there is a lot
of bias against marginalized communities. You're right,

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Ashley, I cover only LGBTQ community
crimes and the marginalized community. The

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law enforcement they're not fair to LGBTQ
people for the most part, and that's

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why a lot of LGBTQ people are
scared to go to law enforcement if something

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bad happens to them. But with
Alex, I think because he was trans,

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I believe that there's a huge bias
and they're not looking at this case

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the way they would had he been
a long haired, blonde woman of twenty

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three. You know, it is
two twenty three, we're getting into twenty

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twenty four, and we still have
people out there doing hateful shit to those

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in marginalized communities such as the LGBTQ
plus communities, and it's just, I

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don't know, it just needs to
stop. I mean, I am infuriated

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I know everybody here is infuriated specifically
for this case, but in several other

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cases where no justice is seen,
the fact that this is getting treated as

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if they fly on their shoulder,
they're just going to swat it away.

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It's not going to fly. So
I guess essentially what we're all trying to

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do is do a call to action
at the end of this, after we

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do our roundtable. So but I
really just wanted to mention that because frankly,

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I am sick and fucking tired of
seeing, you know, our gay

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and lesbian friends, our trans friends, being treated the way that they are

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and thrown away like their just disposable
garbage. Yes, I think that's exactly

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right, and I think we should
explore that. Courtney, Well, I'm

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going to have you chime in with
what we talked about. But I think

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one of the things that stuck out
to me initially was just the handling of

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the crime scene in and of itself. There were multiple officers, I believe

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between five to six on scene.
They did not cording off the area with

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caution tape. In fact, in
the bodycam footage you can hear one of

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the officers who really advocated for the
fact that this was clearly a homicide.

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He stated it explicitly multiple times.
That same officer, who I commend highly

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in this case, said hey,
we need to section this off. There's

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people walking through, to which another
officer says, Uh, why does it

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matter. People have already walked all
over it. Anyway, it doesn't matter.

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There's footprints all over. So I
think it's obvious that it was mishandled.

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And Courtney, if you could chime
in about what you were saying that

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you heard on the body camera footage
too, I think that's a good piece

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of information. Yeah. Absolutely,
And I'll have to go back and watch

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all that body camera footage again because
I can't recall off the toime when I

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had which video I explicitly heard it. But the thing that really got me

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is when they realized that the decedent
that they were called about was Alex Mandelson.

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It wasn't Okay, this is the
missing person we've been looking for,

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this is the missing young man we've
been looking for. It was hei she

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whatever it is. And that is
almost an exact direct quote. And it's

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disgusting to me, first of all, that your whole job is to protect

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and serve your community as a member
of law enforcement, and you turn around

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in so blatantly disrespect a victim with
such careless disregard for who they are,

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you have diminished them in that moment. You diminished Alex to nothing by saying

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that. And so much of that
body camera footage was muted, so it's

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interesting to him that that little bit, that little that little snide remark that

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one of the officers had was left
in and was not muted, And it's

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like, why you muted everything else, but you left that particular statement in,

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that disgusting statement in, and that
shows to me how little you value

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this young man as a human being. And I will never forget it.

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That's stuck in my brain, and
I watched it three or four times to

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confirm that that's actually what I was
hearing. I will never forget it.

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But the blatant disrespect and the blatant
bias. Yeah, And I think it's

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obvious too that there was this implicit
bias, because even just going beyond the

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way that they failed to cordon off
the crime scene when they were transporting Alex's

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body, they did not lock or
put any identification to make sure that it

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wasn't mishandled in any way, and
that's directly in the report, and that's

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how it's supposed to go. How
do you know that it's not going to

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be tampered with? How do you
know that nobody is going to do anything

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prior to the autopsy? So how
do we really know how many hands they

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passed Alex through? How do we
know that they've followed proper protocol procedure?

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We just don't because they've failed to
follow protocol the entire way. And you

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know what, that just kind of
falls along the line of the Indiana law

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enforcement. Actually, and I know
that the governor Eric Holcom I believe is

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the governor of Indiana. I hope
I have that right. He was trying

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to He knows that the law enforcement
sucks there, and he's been trying to

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upgrade the law enforcement and make them
better. But I don't know how long

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that will take. I don't know
if he's effective at all. I just

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this is the second case out of
Indiana of LGBTQ that I've covered, and

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the law enforcement has been horrible there. When I did some research and some

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statistics of the Indiana law enforcement,
they were actually graded and their grade would

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have been like two steps two points
above an F. That's how bad they

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are. And I went through all
the counties, not just Tippecanoe County where

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this happened, where Lafayette, Indiana
is they need training. I mean,

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you know, all law enforcement,
they just need to continually be trained,

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and I don't think they are,
and this one is particularly bad. The

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things that set out to me were
one officer in the bodycam footage pointed to

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the wound and was like, look, you can see the entrance wound here

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and the exit wound there. And
it was the complete opposite when it got

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to the medical examiner's office, and
you don't have an exit wound that is

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larger or smaller than an entrance wound. And correct me if I'm wrong,

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But I think on the the medical
examiner's report they found gunpowder residue around the

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exit wind, which wouldn't happen.
I don't see how when they searched the

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crime scene they couldn't find bullet casings. These metal detectors to sweep the area

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and couldn't find any, So where's
the bullet casing? To kind of piggyback

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off that after I recorded hour episode. Lisa, my co host, spoke

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to my stepdad. He's a firearms
expert, twenty five years in the military.

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He was a sniper. He did
the whole nine. We asked him

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basically his thoughts, his opinions,
and he said, you know, did

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they ever find the shellcasing? I
said, no, they did, as

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you said, with metal detectors,
they couldn't find it. He said that

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it could not have been suicide because
in order for it to have been suicide,

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there would be a shellcasing, unless
Alex would have died by a gunshot

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from a revolver. Because there was
no shellcasing, that means someone quote unquote

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policed their brass. They picked up
the shell casing and took it with them.

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That's the only way, it is
the only possible way for there not

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to be a shellcasing. So based
on that alone, it can't be suicide

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because Alex could not have physically would
not have been able to pick up the

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shellcasing. Besides the fact that there
was no bullet and it was a through

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and through a wound. And how
was Alex found We were just discussing and

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his hands were in his pockets when
he was found exactly. His hands were

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in his pocket, he was laying
on his back, his legs were crossed

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with the ankles. How do you
put your hands back in your pocket after

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you shoot yourself? You don't exactly. If you're literally going to unlive yourself,

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how would you do that and then
quickly put your hands back in your

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pockets. I mean, you're pretty
much instantly dead at that point if that

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were the case. That's just one
of many things about this whole case that

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rubs me the wrong way. I
honestly had idea about the hay shear It

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thing until you brought that up to
me just now. And CJ, you

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were telling me prior to it,
like when we first started doing this case,

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when it was just us, you
were telling me about how Indiana has

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a big history with misconduct and mishandling
cases. Do you mind elaborating a little

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bit more on that real fast.
It's been a while since I covered Alex's

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case and the research I did for
that case and the other case I covered

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in Indiana, so I really don't
have anything I can grasp from at the

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moment other than I remember the grades. But what I can tell you is

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that Alex's family had some communication with
the Indiana Police Department before this. For

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example, we were talking about Jen
Alex's mom had once worked as a corrections

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officer, so she knew a lot
of the law enforcement, and she briefly

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interned with the Lafayette Police Department.
She got to you know some of the

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people I don't know how well.
Also Alex's dad, his father was a

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police officer there in Indiana, and
the father's cousin, and both of them,

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I guess were shady cobbs who got
in big trouble with law enforcement.

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So one of and they were also
both very in with the mayor of Lafayette,

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Indiana at the time. And when
the cousin, when I think it

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was a cousin, it might have
been the grandfather. When he lost his

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job, he was appointed as the
parks and wreck security officer by the mayor,

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who he was good buddies with.
And there was something about, oh,

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the person who found Alex's body was
the snowplow driver who worked for the

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Parts and w rec Department. I
don't know. That could just be coincident,

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if you believe in coincidences. Also, Jen Alex's mom had told me

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that there was a tunnel nearby where
he was found, where Alex's body was

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found. I think she had said
that it was well known during good weather,

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because you have to remember, this
happened in February of twenty twenty one,

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and it was very cold and very
snowy. Alex had asthma and he

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went out in a very light layer
of clothes for that type of weather.

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But apparently in good weather, the
kids hung out in the tunnel and you

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know, I guess maybe there was
drugs exchanged or something. But there was

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a tunnel nearby, and I don't
know if they ever checked for a bullet

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there, because it's quite possible Alex
was murdered there and dragged to the spot

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he was placed in and posed.
That's kind of my theory on it.

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Also, Alex's dad is not Father
of the year. He refused to call

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Alex by Alex and used Alex's dead
name in Alex's female pronouns, which Alex

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didn't use. Yeah, I think
the other thing that really drove home for

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me that this couldn't have been something
that he was planning to do. If

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you're going if the police are insisting
upon looking at it as a suicide angle

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is again the the clothes he was
wearing is not clothes you wear to walk

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four miles in the winter. And
the fact that he was a severe enough

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asthmatic that he relied on his inhaler. You know, from what Jen told

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me, you know, he stopped
sports. He you know, he needed

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his inhaler. And that was the
one thing that she had recalled telling the

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officers when they finally came to take
the missing person's report, that he did

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not have is inhaler with him,
and she had gotten some excuse after the

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fact by I believe Lieutenant Payne saying, oh, well, some people,

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you know can deal with their asthma, and you know, like something to

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that effect. I'd have to go
back and read the email again. But

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I know from having asthma myself.
My mother has asthma, it is physically

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painful to be out in cold weather
as an asthmatic. There's no way he

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would have walked four miles in the
snow in twenty degree weather with the real

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feel of four without even if he
was bundled up appropriately for the weather and

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hadis in handler, There's no way
he would have made that walk. So

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I personally believe that he left the
house to get into a car, probably

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maybe get into the car with someone
that his mom didn't really want him hanging

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around, because Jen said, that's
kind of what she thought might have happened,

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and I agree, and something happened
after. You know, he wore

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such light clothes because he was going
to go from the house to the car.

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That's that's what I truly believe.
I truly truly believe he got into

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someone's car, because there's no way
he would have four miles. So Alex

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had a couple of situations he was
dealing with too. We had discussed it

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briefly in our Twitter group about a
cousin or a friend that owed a drug

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dealer some money and he said,
Alex up and Alex was robbed at gunpoint

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by this person. Correct, yes, that Jennifer had told me that whether

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it was a cousin or friend,
I'm a little fuzzy on that detail.

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That the friend needed money to pay
a dealer for marijuana and had asked Alex

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for the money. Alex said,
no, I'm not giving you the money

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this time, and then Alex set
him up to be robbed at gunpoint.

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And this was only I think a
couple of months prior to Alex's death,

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Alex didn't set himself up. The
cousin or the friend said Alex, I

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got you, I'm with you.
Yes, the friend the friend said,

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Alex up to be Rob's at gunpoint
because Alex would not give the friend or

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the cousin money to pay off the
dealer. So this was only a couple

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of months prior to Alex's staff.
So the coincidence there can't be denied either

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that he was held at gunpoint for
money over drugs and then a few months

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later he is dead from a gunshot
wound. Also, the other issue that

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Alex had been dealing with was his
best friend. And when I say,

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I think her name is Cassie.
Her wife was very jealous of Alex and

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Cassie's relationship. Now, the gun
that was found under Alex, the pistol

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that was found under him, is
believed to have belonged to Cassie's wife.

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It was a pink and black nine
millimeter. I believe Jen doesn't believe Jen.

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Alex's mom does not believe that that
was the murder weapon. Though this

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person, I'm just I'm trying to
just kind of grasp at things of who

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Alex might have went with that night. It could have been I don't think

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it was Cassie, because Cassie would
have said something for sure. Could have

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been Cassie's wife. It could have
been the cousin or the friend that set

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him up to be wrong. I'm
just throwing this out there. I don't

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know if you guys agree with that
as possibility or not. Yeah, I

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agree. I definitely think that he
was with someone that night, whether it

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was someone that his mother didn't want
him to hang out with, or you

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know, maybe it was Cassie's wife
and you know, she had said,

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you know, I want to talk
things out with you kind of thing,

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and it went south from there.
Took backtrack a little bit though. It

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popped into my brain that Jen was
told that they don't test for gunshot residue.

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They never tested for gunshot residue.
They said that they don't do that.

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It's not TV, And I just
want to say that, while it's

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in my head that narrative is false. They do check for gunshot residue.

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That is something that is tested for. It would be very difficult to test

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for, you know, given the
snow. But that was one of the

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many lies that she was told,
and I think that's relevant as well if

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you want to kind of entertain the
police cover up angle. Well, you

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know, I was just going to
say, throwing that out there, that

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actual gun that was found under Alex
has never been ballistic tested. There's been

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no testing upon it, and jen
believes that they're still holding on to it.

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So why do they have it?
Why can't they do something with it?

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Who knows? I don't know.
So just to catch everybody up to

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where we are at in present day, that is listening, Jennifer has been

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fighting and petitioning to get this case
reevaluated, opened, investigated, properly,

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and hopefully closed as a homicide,
and get justice for Alex. The most

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recent update is that Jennifer received a
response on October eleventh of twenty twenty three

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in regards to her request for a
new investigation. And so now Rob is

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going to read the letter so you
can know exactly the reason Jennifer was given

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so reply to requests for a new
investigation death of Alex van Dolson, Miss

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van Dolson, The Indiana State Police
empathizes with the difficult loss of your family

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member. However, a decision has
been reached that the request and circumstance outlined

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therein do not adequately meet the requirements
set forth in Ice thirty five forty fifteen.

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As a result of a formal review
process, the Indiana State Police Department

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will not conduct a new investigation in
an attempt to determine whether the death of

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Alex Van Dolson that occurred on February
ninth, twenty twenty one, in Tippecanoe

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County, was the result of a
criminal act committed by a third person.

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And then it goes on to give
contact information if they have any additional questions.

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And that was sent by Major Brian
Harper of the Indiana State Police.

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What Jen told me about that letter, well, about the whole Indiana State

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Police checking into it, They weren't
looking in in investigating Alex's case. They

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were investigating law enforcement just to see
if they had done something wrong in the

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investigation. So the consensus would have
been if they found that law enforcement had

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did something incorrectly or inappropriate, they
would reopen the investigation. But of course

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they found nothing, quote unquote,
so they're not going to reopen the investigation.

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That's how that goes. And that's
why we're here today because this is

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bullshit. It's all bullshit. That
boy was he was killed, he didn't

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take his own life. I'm one
hundred percent positive, and in my whole

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whole being, I feel one hundred
percent positive that boy was murdered. There's

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just still not enough awareness on it. So what we're trying to do is

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we're trying to drive the point home
that if you're looking at it from a

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mom's perspective, we are asking that
you all look at this case as if

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this happened to your own son or
daughter, and what would you do.

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So if it were me, I
would be contacting that police officer that wrote

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that letter. His name is Brian
Harper. His phone number is three one

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seven two three two seven two six' nine. We also have State Senator

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Ron Alting, we have the Indiana
House of Representatives. There is that one

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00:28:36.440 --> 00:28:40.319
reporter that y'all were talking about that
wanted to cover this case. Wasn't his

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00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:47.240
name Colt Chase, So we would
all probably be reaching that person Ashley had

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00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:52.079
mentioned earlier, the Attorney General and
his name is Todd Rokita, the ACLU

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of Indiana. And then we also
want to kind of apply pressure and ask

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other true crime podcasters big or small, whoever is listening, even if you

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00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:07.680
want to just like, go even
if you're not a podcaster, go to

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00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:11.839
Starbucks and find some random person and
be like, hey, you need to

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00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:17.039
go listen to X, Y,
and Z about Alex van Dolson because it

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00:29:17.079 --> 00:29:19.799
needs enough awareness on it. The
cops are not taking it seriously. They're

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basically treating him like a throwaway.
But we do want to hear this case

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covered on way more true crime podcasts. We want to see more media coverage

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00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:36.480
on it as well. We want
to start seeing newspaper articles. We want

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to see it essentially not be shoved
in just Indiana. We want to see

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it outside of Indiana. We want
to see it across the borders and whatnot.

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00:29:45.160 --> 00:29:48.880
What do you what do you guys
think we wanted to go fucking viral?

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00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:52.119
Yeah, we need, we need
his case to go viral because it's

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00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:56.440
about time. Like she's coming up
on two and a half years, it'll

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00:29:56.480 --> 00:30:00.680
be three years in February, where
she still has not received an answers.

359
00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:07.119
She's not getting any kind of transparency
in this. There's obviously and I'm sorry,

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00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:08.240
I know I'm a little late with
my opinion here, but there's a

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00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:12.319
police cover up going on here,
and you know it's just not gonna fly.

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You can't get away with whatever you're
doing forever. But we need as

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00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:22.720
many people to coaberate with all of
us on this and get his name known.

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00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:26.799
He continues saying his name. That's
the biggest call action I can think

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00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:32.960
of. Alex van Dolson, Alex
van Dalson, Alex Vandalson, Alex van

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00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:37.160
Dalson, Alex van Daalson, and
Jennifer. If you're listening to this,

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00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:41.519
we love you. I love you
jen very much. They still need signatures

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00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:45.880
on the petition. I think they're
like one hundred and fifty away from hitting

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00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:51.559
their goal. But if everyone listening
to this takes the time to go and

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00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:56.039
sign the petition, they will sur
past that goal because the more signatures they

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00:30:56.039 --> 00:31:00.319
get, the more likely it is
that someone will listen. Also, is

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00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:04.039
making these really cool tumblers. I'm
gonna get her to send me some pictures

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00:31:04.359 --> 00:31:08.759
and I'm going to put them up
on my beyond the Rainbow wherever I am

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00:31:08.839 --> 00:31:14.839
social media, and hopefully you guys
might too. The many is just going

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00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:19.119
towards more stuff to solve this case
and find justice for Alex. Thank you

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for listening.