Chapter 67: Bulldoze Your Fear; Overcoming Trauma W/ Susan Snow

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Hi guys. I'm Courtney and I'm
Lisa, and welcome to the next chapter

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in the Book of the Dead,
brought to you by Dark Cast Network indie

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Podcasts with a Twist. Hello,
Hello, Welcome to another chapter in the

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Book of the Dead. Recently we
spoke with Glenn Martin, who is the

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executive director of the Los Angeles Police
Memorial Foundation, and in his interview,

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we spoke about some officers within the
LAPD who lost their lives while they were

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off duty. One of the officers
discuss was Detective Thomas Williams, who was

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ambushed by individuals on Halloween of nineteen
eighty five when he was picking up his

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son from school. According to lap
Online, the reason for this heinous act

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was to prevent Detective Williams from testifying
at an upcoming robbery trial, and Detective

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Williams was killed protecting his son.
Detective Williams is survived by his wife's son

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and his daughter, and today I
have his daughter, Susan here to discuss

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the impact the loss of her father
had on her and how she has taken

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that trauma and used it to help
others. Please welcome Susan Snow Susan.

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It is wonderful to have you here, and I truly thank you for coming

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on and sharing your story. You
are truly a warrior. Thank you so

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much. I really appreciate you having
me Ni. Thank you for coming on.

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And it's your story is so amazing. The things that you know,

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the trauma that you've been through,
and what you have overcome in the loss

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of your father. So could you
tell us what happened that day and how

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it impacted you and your family?
Sure? Absolutely, Well. You know,

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I was seventeen at the time,
and I was getting ready with Halloween,

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so we were getting ready for I
was getting ready for a party that

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my parents had already told me I
couldn't come go to. But being a

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teenager, I was tenacious and I
had run around and cleaned the entire house

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so that my parents would see all
the things that I did and they would

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let me go to this party.
So the plan was that my dad was

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picking up my brother from school and
he would come home. My mom had

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already arrived home from work and she
was still in her costume. She was

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a tin Man that year, and
I was now understand, this is the

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eighties, so I was Madonna,
and so I started to get ready when

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the phone rang, and being the
teenager that I am I was, then

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I thought, who else would be
calling? You know, would definitely have

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to be for me, right,
So I sprang to the phone and I

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picked it up, and it wasn't
for me. It was a lady from

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my brother's school. And all she
said to me was that there was a

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drive by shooting and my dad was
involved. And my mom kind of peeked

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around the corner and I handed her
the phone and said nothing. And so

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she picked up the phone and I
could hear her talking to this woman,

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and I started to see her posture
changing, and I knew it was serious.

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And so she got off the phone
and she looked at me and she

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said, we're going to the school. So we jumped in the car.

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We drove. It was about a
seven minute drive something like that. Between

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five and minutes, not a word. We didn't speak one word to each

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other. And my gut was that
there was something terribly, terribly wrong,

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but I just I couldn't pinpoint it, and I definitely didn't know what we

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were about to see. So when
we arrived at the school, we parked

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in the middle of the school.
The kids got picked up off of glade,

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which is the backside of the school, and so that's where we headed.

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Once we got out of the car, we saw ambulances and police officers

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walking around and they were crying.
And rounded the corner and saw my dad

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struck. So she and I made
a beeline for the truck, and that's

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when we witnessed his body in the
aftermath, and police officer grabbed my mom's

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arm and held her back and she
collapsed to her knees. And I just

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stood there and it was like the
world cracked. And what I was seeing,

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and what I talk about in my
book is the fact that like when

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I came upon this scene, I
saw I, I saw the ambulance,

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and I just couldn't understand why I
was just sitting there and there was nothing

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being done. So even though I
was seeing what I was seeing, my

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brain wasn't processing everything. And we
were kind of whisked away at that point,

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taken into an office, and I
sat in the office and my mom

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got pulled away for a minute.
I had no idea where my brother was.

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I had no idea if he was
hurt, and I just sat there

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by myself and I could hear two
ladies in the office talking and the one

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lady said, yes, that my
dad was to see and that's when it

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reality just hit me and I just
wanted to run, like physically run out

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of there, but my legs weren't
working anymore. And my mom came up

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to me and she said, I'm
sending you with a neighbor. Now,

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I wanted to be, you know, I wanted to leave, obviously,

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but at the same time, I
wanted to be with my unit, my

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family unit, you know, And
instead I was sent with a neighbor.

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So that night I processing everything,
or trying to process everything, and just

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going through the shock of everything that
I saw. I was kind of alone

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until my neighbor, lady who God
lover, she I mean, and she

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knew my parents very well and so
it was shocking to her and she was

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trying to process everything. I had
her call my boyfriend at the time,

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who's now my husband, and so
that's what she did. She called and

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had him come, and he still
didn't know what happened. All she said

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is that there was a it was
a shooting, and my dad was involved.

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Was kind of the same thing.
So when he arrived, he had

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no idea, and he just kept
prodding me to get my jackets so we

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could go to the hospital. And
I couldn't say the words. I just

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it would be real if I said
the words. And I stood there and

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I just was like, I didn't
know what to say. And finally I

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got the gumshin I guess to blurt
out that he was gone. And that's

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literally the first time I've ever seen
my husband drop to his knees. And

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he was nineteen years old at the
time, so we were kids, and

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we were both trying to process all
of this, Like he was devastated.

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We had been dating three months and
he knew my dad liked my dad,

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my dad liked him, and it
was just it was a crazy crazy wouldn't

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wish it on anyone night. And
I think the worst of it is that

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I went from having a normal teenage
life to something I didn't recognize any longer.

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And I didn't know how I was
going to live without my dad,

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So it was it was a lot
for a teenage girl. Absolutely, I

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mean, to have your entire world
be thrown upside down in instant is I

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mean, it's it's all. It's
unfathomable. You know, to myself,

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who's now or how to thankfully experience
something so traumatic and the fact that you,

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in essence had to kind of deal
with it alone for a little bit

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because you were sent home. And
I understand that decision, you know,

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because you were so young, you
know, seventeen is, like you said,

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still a child. Yeah, but
you know that was chaotic. I

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mean it was you know, I
think I wouldn't know what to do in

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that situation. I mean, it
was just chaotic. At the time.

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I would know what I would do
and I would keep my kids with me,

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but I'm different, you know,
and so it's just I think there

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was just so much, like there
was a lot of things that were involved

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in that whole situation, and some
of them were like formality things, you

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know, so but my my,
my world was just completely turned upside down.

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And we had from that night on
my entire very quiet street was packed

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full of cruisers. They were you
know, police, police officers everywhere.

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And I made the decision to go
home that night very late. It was

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very late, and my house was
packed with people I'd ever seen before,

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and the you know, in the
streets, and my husband and I were

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walking up the street. There was
like four houses up and we just kind

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of looked at each other, like, what, this is unreal? But

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yeah, I went into my house
and I just wanted to hide, and

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so I went straight into my room, hoping that no one would say anything

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to me. No, of course, and I could. I could resonate

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with that few of just wanting to
hide from it all, and you know,

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not, you know, even though
it had at that point become that

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reality, you know, had finally
hate you, you know, wanting to

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hide and you know it's it's a
bad dream. It's not real. Those

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feelings still inside you. And again, I mean just the trauma that you

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all went through, having, you
know, you and your mother having to

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walk into that scene, your brother
being there for it, the trauma that

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you all experienced that day. You
know, how did how did it impact

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your family? Oh? It impacted
us quite a bit. I understand.

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I really didn't have a very healthy
relationship with my mother prior to this happening,

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and so that dynamic was sticky at
best. Obviously, you know,

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I didn't I didn't even get to
see I didn't and see my brother until

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the next day. When I saw
him, I was relieved because I knew

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that he wasn't physically hurt, but
you know, I had heard him crying

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that night, and I wanted to
go and console him. He's ten years

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younger than me, but I didn't
have it in me to do that.

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I had nothing left, and I
assumed that my mom would be the one

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that would consul, you know,
console him and make sure he was okay.

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After it had happened, there was
just people in our house, like

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for six days. They did not
they did not find them, the men

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that were involved for six days.
So for six days we had this police

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presence and it was intense. So
honestly, like it was a good six

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days. We didn't even have a
lot of interaction my mother and I.

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It was very much wh just going
about life, but not I don't like.

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I think we were all in kind
of a fog, and obviously my

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mom, now being a widow,
had things that she had to handle,

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and so we just kind of avoided
one another, I guess, and it

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stayed that way even through the funeral. I think a lot of it,

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too, is that there was this
feeling of not being important, and I

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think that came from the fact that
obviously and I don't blame anyone, but

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all the focus was on my brother
and my mother, and even the media

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forgot or didn't know he had a
teenage daughter for two days, and so

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there was just this feeling like I
was not I was not important, and

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that was hard because I felt very
alone in my shock and my grief and

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everything, and it I started to
have these feelings. And back then,

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you know, there was no conversation
around mental health none, and there was

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no resources for teenagers at all who
have gone through any kind of trauma.

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So all of the things that started
to happen started to happen pretty quickly.

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And the first thing I started having
was like panic attacks, like feeling like

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I was crawling out of my skin. I no longer had that safety net

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my dad, Like my dad always
made me feel safe, and I didn't

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have that anymore. And the fact
that people followed him and watched him and

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all that, you know, it
was just it would make my skin crawl

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thinking about it, and so I
started having that. I went into a

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very deep depression. And I think
the hardest part was that my mom kind

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of did her own thing. I
kind of describe it as turtling like she

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kind of turtled into herself and that
progressed into drinking. And so everybody deals

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with their grief differently, and that's
how she dealt with it. And for

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me, I just didn't even know
what I was dealing with because I became

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very, very suicidal. I just
wanted to be with my dad and I

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didn't care how that was going to
happen. But being the fact that I

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had no idea, I really had
conflicted conversations in my head about that.

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But I still like every day I
wouldn't sleep. I didn't sleep for in

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almost a year. I mean sleep
sleep, and so it was a zombie.

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I just went through life and really
didn't have the support system. Other

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than my boyfriend and my friends,
I didn't have it, and so I

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had to kind of figure things out
for myself from the very beginning. I

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can only imagine how lonely you must
have felt not having that support system that

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you really needed at that moment.
You know from your mom, and I

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understand she was going through the same
grief that you were, and it's hard

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to support someone when you're going through
it yourself and not having the therapeutic outlets

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because as you said, you know, it just was not a thing that

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people talked about. It's still a
thing that people are struggling and only just

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starting to talk about now. But
how did you you know, what led

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you to start to heal from that
pain, because obviously you've spent years with

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that gat of losing your father in
such a perific way. Yeah, and

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you know, unfortunately, so I
talk about this a lot, but about

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a month into, uh after after
my dad's death, LAPD finally said,

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you know what, I think you
guys should see therapy and we will take

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care of that for you. I
had no idea what a therapist was.

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And for me, you know,
being a kid, I thought, oh,

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oh my gosh, you have to
go to a therapist because you're crazy.

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So uh and that was kid mentality
and uh so I but at the

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same time, I just did what
I was asked to do. And so

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my mom said, this is what
LAPD said, and so we should do

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this, and you know, because
this is what they said, I said,

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okay, fine, I'll go.
And we all saw different people.

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The gentleman that I saw, I
don't think in hindsight that he was educated

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enough to handle the amount of trauma
and in doing that, I feel like

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he avoided that road. And so
for an entire year, and granted,

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like I was a mess, and
I didn't know how to verbalize what was

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going on in my head since I
was a kid, you know, I

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had no idea that, you know, I should say, look, I

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feel like dying today, you know
what I mean. I didn't know how

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to verbalize that. And he never
and this blows people's mind, but he

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never asked me how that night affected
me to start the conversation. So my

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therapy sessions were very shallow. They
were very much about my relationship with my

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mother, my relationship with my brother, my relationship with my boyfriend, and

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school. And that's every single time
I saw him, and every single time

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I thought, today's the day something's
gonna happen. He's going to help me,

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and it didn't happen. And after
a year he looked at me and

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he said, Susan, you're a
well rounded young lady. You are a

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strong young lady, and you are
going to be fine for the rest of

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your life. And I thought,
wait, wait, I'm I have all

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this stuff in my head and we
haven't even discussed it, like we have

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all this stuff, and so then
I thought. My next thought was,

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Okay, well I must have cracked
that night and I'm just crazy and this

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is just how I'm gonna have to
live my life for the rest of my

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life with all of this stuff in
my head. So I'm gonna just have

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to figure this out myself and how
to navigate it. And it was pretty

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devastating. I would say that that
very moment gave me this sense of this

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is something I will always will I
will never get rid of this feeling.

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I will always be tortured by these
panic attacks and this anxiety and deep depression.

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I'm never going to get out of
this, so I'll just accept it

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and whatever. And so for fourteen
years I lived in fight or flight and

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sometimes freeze, and it affected everything
around me. It affected my relationships,

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It affected my work. I mean
everything that I did from then on was

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affected because my mental health was not
It was not healthy, although he told

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me I was a well rounded young
lady, and so I thought, well,

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he can't fix me. Uh oh. Fourteen years later, here I

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am. I'm now married to that
boyfriend. I have two children who are

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now living in Colorado, and two
years into being here, Columbine happened and

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I was working as a hairdresser at
the time. That day, I had

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put my client under a dryer and
I went into the back and we had

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a tiny little TV in the back
breakroom. Turned it on and all of

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the coverage was on the TV,
and I sat there and I watched with

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some of my colleagues, and all
of a sudden, all of those feelings

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started flooding back. I was having
flashbacks of the night my dad was killed.

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I saw the police officers at the
school. I saw the ambulances,

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I saw the kids that were about
my same age, and I couldn't understand

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what was happening to me. I
started sweating. I was like literally going

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into a panic attack. And my
colleague had no idea because I did not

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tell my story, and so she
asked me, do you have kids there?

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You don't have kids there, You're
not old enough. Do you live

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in the area. Do you know
someone who has kids there? Like she

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was just trying to figure out what
was happening to me, and I looked

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at her and I said, I
have nobody there, and I have no

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idea why this is happening. And
I knew I just I had that spiraling

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feeling. I knew that I was
spiraling, but I did what I do

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best at that time, and I
put on my mask and I said,

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I'm not going to let anybody see
this, and I went. I did

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my clients that day, and I
pretended everything was perfectly fine, when internally,

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as mess I walked out the door, I had visions of driving off

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the road, fantasized about the ways
I could take my own life. And

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a couple days later, my husband
had recognized it and he said, you

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have two choices. You either get
help or I'm putting you in a hospital

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today. And so I said,
I don't want to leave my kids.

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I knew it was serious, so
I did. I went to the doctor,

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and the doctor put me on antidepressants
because that's what they do. And

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then he said, and you need
to seek therapy. You need to see

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a therapist. And I looked at
him and I went, wait a minute.

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Fourteen years you know, fourteen years
ago, this man couldn't help me,

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he couldn't fix me. So what
makes you think a new one is

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going to do that? And he
said, well, you need to try

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it, you know, you just
you need to see somebody, so he

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gave me references, and thank god
he did, because I found this woman

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who she was a godsend because she
specialized in PTSD and trauma based therapy.

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So in talking to her for less
than ten minutes, I gave her a

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synopsis of what happened when I was
seventeen and then what was currently happening.

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And she looked at me and she
said, Susan, everything you have gone

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through since you were seventeen years old
is one hundred percent normal because you have

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PTSD. And I thought, wait
a minute, how can I have PTSD.

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I'm not in the military, I
didn't go to war. What what?

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And she said no, she said
to everyone who has ever gone through

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any kind of traumatic experience can experience
PTSD. But what you need to know

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about PTS as it never goes away. It's something you manage. And so

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we're going to teach you ways to
manage these things that come up for you.

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And I swear the sky opened up
and rainbow shot out because I finally

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won. I wasn't crazy. And
two now I have a road. I

278
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have a map to a course of
feeling better for the first time in fourteen

279
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years. So I was so grateful
at that time and that started my journey.

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That's amazing. It's horrifying though,
that your original therapist was so useless.

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There's no other way to put it
in help you because to keep it

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on such a surface level conversation,
did you know justice? And you could

283
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have been saved fourteen years of panic? And I you know, I've been

284
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through panic attacks myself. I have
severe depression and anxiety and the short don't

285
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know what it feels like, Yes, the short time that I lived through

286
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like daily constant panic attacks. I
mean it the things that it does to

287
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you to have those constant feelings of
wanting to like rip out of your skin

288
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is so traumatizing in and of itself, and that to stem from the trauma

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that you experienced. I mean,
it is inspiring that you lived with that

290
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for so long with no help.
No. I feel like my mask was

291
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:52.359
really good. And I talk about
this all the time because I think there's

292
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a lot of people walking around with
those masks. They don't do you any

293
00:26:56.400 --> 00:27:00.480
good. Initially, they might help, but down you know, as you

294
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continue to do that and you're not
dealing with what is actually going on within,

295
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it's uh, it's detrimental, and
like I said, it was,

296
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uh, it was affecting every part
of my life. I wasn't able to

297
00:27:17.720 --> 00:27:22.599
be the person that I wanted to
be. I was held back by all

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of this because I had no way
of managing these things that would come up.

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The depression, you know, the
the suicidal ideation, the the panic

300
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attacks, the anxiety that you know, feeling like I'm crawling out of my

301
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skin, even the safety factors.
You know, when I was living in

302
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California, I would not go out
at night take trash out because I was

303
00:27:48.279 --> 00:27:52.319
always thinking that they were following me, or somebody was going to get me

304
00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:59.119
or some Because once you've had the
carpet ripped out from underneath you like that,

305
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you're your safety level is just gone. You know, it's just not

306
00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:10.920
there. And even though that never
happened, nothing transpired, it's still in

307
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the back of your head. You
know, the boogeyman is going to come

308
00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:21.599
get you. So anyone who has
been in you know that kind of trauma.

309
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It really violates your sense of security. And so for me, I

310
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just when we moved to Colorado,
I felt a sense of relief and at

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00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:37.839
the time I felt like, ooh, I don't have to explain myself.

312
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Nobody knows me out here. You
know, in California, people knew me.

313
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This story of what happened to my
dad was huge and the media ate

314
00:28:47.799 --> 00:28:52.039
it up. So we were in
the media all the time when it first

315
00:28:52.079 --> 00:29:00.480
happened, on anniversaries during the trial. We had two trials because there's so

316
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:11.400
many defendants and this was a convoluted
planned murder and it was the first LAPD.

317
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:14.799
I'm sure you heard this. It
was in the Annals of LAPD.

318
00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:19.240
It was the first time an officer
had ever been assassinated. Yeah, and

319
00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:26.799
has impact. And it does.
And we're looking at it's thirty eight years

320
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:36.480
later, and I'm meeting people who
were still hurting and still frustrated and still

321
00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:41.240
angry. And my mom is you
know, my mom has never healed.

322
00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:45.759
And that's unfortunate, you know,
But like I said, everybody deals with

323
00:29:45.799 --> 00:29:52.440
their trauma differently. My brother and
I we chose to heal, and he's

324
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:56.400
in his healing journey now. I'm
so proud of him. He had it

325
00:29:56.519 --> 00:30:00.119
rough in the beginning, he made
some bad choices, got himself into some

326
00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:07.920
trouble, and now he is,
he's doing great. And I think for

327
00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:11.680
both of us, we just you
know, I say I'm my father's daughter,

328
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:15.480
and I firmly believe he is his
father's son. And we were both

329
00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:22.160
have that fighting power within, and
I think we totally get that from him.

330
00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:26.799
So when I wrote this book,
The Other Side of the Gun,

331
00:30:27.079 --> 00:30:30.640
there was two reasons why I wrote
it. One of them was the fact

332
00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:37.200
that obviously I wanted to heal because
of all the time that I was pushed

333
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:42.799
aside and didn't feel important and people
made their own stories up in their mind

334
00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:47.799
about who I was as a person. I felt like it was time I

335
00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:53.039
had done enough work. Mentally I
was in a better place. But it

336
00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:59.039
didn't happen until I was fifty years
old, and I kind of drew a

337
00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:02.119
line in the sand and said,
this is it. I got to get

338
00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:04.519
this book done. And it took
me four and a half years to do

339
00:31:04.599 --> 00:31:14.039
it because I had to dive and
relive every ounce of every emotion that I

340
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:18.880
went through all these years, and
that in itself was the hardest thing I've

341
00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:26.160
ever done, more than any therapy
session or thing, because I knew that

342
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:30.960
I had to be one hundred percent
vulnerable and I had to tell one hundred

343
00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:37.640
percent of my story in order to
make the impact that I wanted to make

344
00:31:38.680 --> 00:31:45.720
with others. And so I talk
about bulldozing your fear, because fear holds

345
00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:51.720
you back from everything right. And
when I wrote the book, I realized

346
00:31:51.799 --> 00:31:56.920
that not only was this healing myself, but I wanted to heal others.

347
00:31:56.079 --> 00:32:00.920
I wanted to heal the law enforcement
out there the lawn for you know,

348
00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:09.319
my Leo family who is still hurting
and angry and trying to show them that

349
00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:16.200
there's hope, and just anyone who
who needs to hear my story to help

350
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:22.839
them heal themselves. And so anytime
I got that fear, I thought about

351
00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:29.640
my purpose. And my purpose was
that through my story and through my words,

352
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:34.400
that I would be able to make
an impact on people and help them

353
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:39.000
and kind of guide them through their
own healing journey. And so that made

354
00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:45.920
that was my purpose, and it's
an amazing purpose. I mean, you

355
00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:51.839
you being brave enough and strong to
you know, in telling your story and

356
00:32:52.039 --> 00:32:55.119
you know, digging deep within yourself
to be that vulnerable to write this book

357
00:32:55.279 --> 00:33:00.039
and share with others is amazing.
And I think that it's something that so

358
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:06.240
many people can learn from and by
sharing your story, You're showing them that

359
00:33:06.359 --> 00:33:13.200
it's possible to get moved past the
trauma that you have been through and turn

360
00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:21.519
it into something powerful. And it
truly is inspiring. And it's amazing to

361
00:33:21.559 --> 00:33:25.680
see and hear your story and see
what you've done with the pain that you've

362
00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:30.519
had to go through. Yeah,
I you know, I just feel like

363
00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:37.359
when you go through something traumatic and
you've been able to heal from it,

364
00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:40.759
and I'm not saying it's I'm done. I wrote a book and I'm all

365
00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:46.000
done. Now I'm all healed.
Healing is evolutionary, you know, you

366
00:33:46.119 --> 00:33:53.079
just keep evolving and and so you
know, I do these podcasts and I

367
00:33:53.160 --> 00:34:02.960
learn every single time something about myself, just about others, and so for

368
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:08.280
me, it was important. Let's
just put it this way. I feel

369
00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:12.960
like my dad was kicking my reran
to get this book done and there was

370
00:34:13.039 --> 00:34:16.440
no there was no quitting, even
though there were days where I was like,

371
00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:21.400
oh, I don't know if I
can do this one. I had

372
00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:24.840
no idea how to write a book. Two diving in the way that I

373
00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:29.360
did. There were days where I
was just done, you know, I

374
00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:34.039
had nothing left and I had to
give myself grace and say, Okay,

375
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:37.920
you know this was really hard today, and I am going to do something

376
00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:45.000
to love myself and to give myself
some joy. And so those were days

377
00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:49.239
where you know they say mental health
days, Well that's exactly what it is.

378
00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:53.400
You know, your self care day. You're taking care of yourself.

379
00:34:53.800 --> 00:35:00.280
I don't think a lot of us
do enough of that. And so it's

380
00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:04.159
you know, I feel like if
I could do this book, if I

381
00:35:04.360 --> 00:35:08.480
could bulldoze that fear, if I
can do all those things, other people

382
00:35:08.559 --> 00:35:14.719
can too. And I feel like
when I'm able to be as vulnerable as

383
00:35:14.719 --> 00:35:20.280
I can, even in conversations with
people, it allows them the safe space

384
00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:25.679
to be vulnerable themselves and tell me
their story and I'm open to that.

385
00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:34.960
I feel like this is my purpose, is to help others through their journey

386
00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:39.960
and in some sort of way make
an impact. And so speaking, you

387
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:45.440
know, I love to speak,
and I did get the honor of speaking

388
00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:52.760
to In September, I went out
to San Diego and I spoke to the

389
00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:58.559
LAPD delegates. There were about one
hundred and fifteen of them, and I

390
00:35:58.679 --> 00:36:06.320
talked to them about departmentalizing because I
did that for years. It's it's called

391
00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:09.239
the Mask, and so I did. I talked to them about that and

392
00:36:10.599 --> 00:36:15.440
I told them my story, and
I feel like there was some healing that

393
00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:22.840
happened which was unbelievable, Like the
experience was unbelievable to me. And I

394
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:27.679
felt so honored to be able to
do that, and I was called to

395
00:36:27.719 --> 00:36:32.320
do that. And again I think
my dad had a hand in it.

396
00:36:34.599 --> 00:36:37.559
But you know, the book is
for anyone and everyone, and there's different

397
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:43.159
things in there that people can connect
with. If I can just make the

398
00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:46.559
difference for one person, I've done
my job. I can assure you you

399
00:36:46.719 --> 00:36:52.119
have most definitely made a difference to
people. I think your story is so

400
00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:59.920
powerful and what you've done to overcome
trauma and as I said, use it

401
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:08.079
to help others is has impacted many
people on the you know, the speaking

402
00:37:08.119 --> 00:37:12.920
engagements that you've done, being on
the podcast that you've been on. I

403
00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:15.599
know that you have made a difference
for so many people. I mean just

404
00:37:15.639 --> 00:37:19.800
talking to you now, like you
know, I can relate in some ways,

405
00:37:19.840 --> 00:37:22.400
as I said, with the panic
and the anxiety and all that,

406
00:37:22.519 --> 00:37:29.599
and seeing how you've overcome it is
inspiring to me because it's still something that

407
00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:34.719
I deal with. So I know
that you've made an impact, and you

408
00:37:34.760 --> 00:37:37.760
know, I know that your father
is probably looking down so proud, you

409
00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:43.880
know, saying you know that is
my daughter. And that's just something that

410
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:47.400
I feel in my heart. But
the last thing I wanted to ask you

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00:37:47.719 --> 00:37:53.119
is what advice do you have for
anyone going through trauma and how they can

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00:37:53.199 --> 00:38:01.079
learn to start healing well. I
have a biggie and and it stems from

413
00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:07.239
my original relationship with my first therapist. The first thing I would do is

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00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:13.159
make sure if you obviously you're not
going to be able to get through things

415
00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:19.000
by yourself. You need guidance,
professional guidance. And when I say that,

416
00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:25.320
I think it's very important that people
seek out therapists that are specialized in

417
00:38:25.639 --> 00:38:32.079
the type of trauma that they have
gone through. And it's very important to

418
00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:38.559
do that because they will be educated
enough to be able to guide you and

419
00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:45.039
give you the tools. The second
part of that is that you need to

420
00:38:45.159 --> 00:38:53.360
feel connected to your therapist because you
have to be able to be as vulnerable

421
00:38:53.559 --> 00:39:00.440
as possible with this person. And
if you don't feel that connection, you're

422
00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:05.440
not going to feel safe, and
you're going to hold back and you're not

423
00:39:05.599 --> 00:39:09.159
going to do the work that needs
to be done in order to heal.

424
00:39:10.599 --> 00:39:17.119
It will it will take away from
your healing journey. And so I tell

425
00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:23.679
people that if you feel like you've
gone to a therapist and the first session

426
00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:30.760
you're just not feeling it, You're
not feeling connected, you're not feeling safe,

427
00:39:31.079 --> 00:39:37.760
move on and keep doing it.
And it might take you three or

428
00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:42.039
four, but you've got to remember
that this is the investment in your life,

429
00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:46.079
and your life is worth it.
And so you know, taking the

430
00:39:46.159 --> 00:39:52.719
time to really find the person that
you know is going to help you heal

431
00:39:53.760 --> 00:40:01.400
is priceless and you're worth it,
and so it's important and do the work.

432
00:40:01.960 --> 00:40:08.679
I mean, I can sit here
and I can say firmly that reliving,

433
00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:15.840
rehashing it sucks like it's terrible.
It's you know, as human beings,

434
00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:19.639
we don't want to run into pain. We want to stay in pleasure

435
00:40:19.719 --> 00:40:24.840
land, right, and we or
avoidance, and that is not going to

436
00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:30.400
help you heal. That is not
going to let you have the life that

437
00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:39.679
you deserve and that you dream about. And also another biggie is that when

438
00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:45.519
you do this healing, you're taking
your life back, You're taking your power

439
00:40:45.599 --> 00:40:51.639
back from the person that hurt you, the person that made the trauma happen.

440
00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:58.639
You're taking that back, and so
it's important for you to do the

441
00:40:58.679 --> 00:41:02.760
work that needs to be done,
and how ugly it gets and how hard

442
00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:09.280
it gets, if you keep pushing
through, the freedom from your pain is

443
00:41:09.320 --> 00:41:15.320
on the other side of that.
And that's priceless. That's so true.

444
00:41:15.039 --> 00:41:22.559
It's there's no shame in not liking
your therapist, no looking another one even

445
00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:30.760
And I understand how scary that is
to have to retell and rego through that

446
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:34.880
trauma, you know, every time, But there is no shame in switching

447
00:41:34.960 --> 00:41:39.960
therapists. There's no shame in saying, you know, what you're doing is

448
00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:45.360
not working for me. Yep.
Absolutely. I tell people like, interview

449
00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:52.000
your therapist, Interview them. This
is the investment in your own life,

450
00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:57.039
right and you want to make sure
that that person knows what the heck they're

451
00:41:57.039 --> 00:42:01.400
doing. And so it's important that
you you interview them, make sure they

452
00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:07.920
know what they're doing, because this
is a journey that they are going alongside

453
00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:14.639
you with. This is you know, reliving all that pain and all that

454
00:42:15.079 --> 00:42:21.480
you know, all the things that
you've experienced. You want someone that understands

455
00:42:21.719 --> 00:42:28.760
clinically how to get you through those
emotions. So if you're working with someone

456
00:42:28.840 --> 00:42:34.280
such as my first therapist, there's
no way he was able to do that

457
00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:37.639
for me. And then you know, and I tell this to kids,

458
00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:43.039
especially teenagers. You know, just
because you're a kid doesn't mean you don't

459
00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:46.360
have a voice. Use it.
And if you don't feel comfortable with this

460
00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:52.440
person, move on. I tell
them the same exact thing. Just because

461
00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:58.159
your insurance paid for a certain person
or whatever, it doesn't matter. What's

462
00:42:58.159 --> 00:43:01.559
important is the health, your health, your mental health, and being able

463
00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:07.079
to heal from your trauma. That's
what's important. Insurance is not important,

464
00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:14.159
and they shouldn't dictate who we go
to and who we don't go to.

465
00:43:15.079 --> 00:43:20.559
It's us, it's our gut feeling, and you will know the minute you

466
00:43:20.639 --> 00:43:25.280
sit down and start talking to this
person. You will know down deep if

467
00:43:25.280 --> 00:43:30.840
it's a connection or not, if
you feel comfortable and not enough and not

468
00:43:30.159 --> 00:43:36.840
you know to move forward. So
don't go them lank four and five times

469
00:43:36.880 --> 00:43:40.000
thinking it's going to get better like
I did. You should know in the

470
00:43:40.039 --> 00:43:46.840
first session whether this is a good
fit or not absolutely, and just know

471
00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:52.480
that it may take a long time, but you can and you will heal.

472
00:43:53.400 --> 00:43:57.920
Yeah. The only way you're going
to do that is to do the

473
00:43:57.960 --> 00:44:02.679
work that needs to be done,
and it goes at your own pace.

474
00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:10.000
There's no race either, there's no
expectation, there's no nothing. Healing is

475
00:44:10.039 --> 00:44:15.719
something that just happens little by little, and so you know it's it's not

476
00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:21.679
it doesn't happen overnight, and you
do have to give yourself grace on the

477
00:44:21.800 --> 00:44:29.039
days that you just could put you
know, no energy, no nothing,

478
00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:35.920
because honestly, you know it's it's
it's human condition. You know, we

479
00:44:35.920 --> 00:44:42.480
can only handle so much. Absolutely, they protect your piece exactly, protect

480
00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:45.960
your piece, and so I think
that's super important. Thank you so much,

481
00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:50.280
Susan for being here today. It
has been an honor talking with you.

482
00:44:50.599 --> 00:44:53.360
I will put the link to your
book in the source notes down below

483
00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:59.000
the other side of the Gun.
That's available on Amazon if I'm correct,

484
00:44:59.039 --> 00:45:04.440
right, yes, yes, it's
it's on paperback and it's an easy rate.

485
00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:07.920
It's one hundred and eighty eight pages. I did that short sweet do

486
00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:13.519
the point, and then it's also
on Kindle. Okay, So I will

487
00:45:13.559 --> 00:45:16.360
have those links below for you guys. You can have no excuse. You

488
00:45:16.360 --> 00:45:20.599
can get the physical book or you
can get the e book, but I

489
00:45:20.719 --> 00:45:22.280
urge you, guys to read it. You know that I will. I've

490
00:45:22.280 --> 00:45:27.519
read every book that any of my
guests have written. I'm just one of

491
00:45:27.519 --> 00:45:32.840
those people. So it's purchased and
it's on my list once I get to

492
00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:37.719
a couple others, so I'm definitely
one. You know, I read all

493
00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:43.760
of them. So if you read
it, please review me good, better,

494
00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:47.360
and different doesn't matter. I will, and you guys should too.

495
00:45:49.239 --> 00:45:52.559
I've always said, you know,
leaving reviews helps more than you could ever

496
00:45:52.639 --> 00:45:55.480
know. Yes, so definitely do
so. But Susan, thank you so

497
00:45:55.559 --> 00:46:00.039
much for being here today. It
really has been wonderful speaking with you.

498
00:46:00.039 --> 00:46:05.000
You are truly a warrior. Thank
you. Thanks for having me, and

499
00:46:05.159 --> 00:46:12.639
I really hope that my words can
help some of your listeners and just thinking

500
00:46:12.719 --> 00:46:15.800
a little bit differently. I think
they will. I think they will.

501
00:46:16.519 --> 00:46:20.760
So with that being said, guys, I will see you in the next

502
00:46:20.840 --> 00:46:24.400
chapter. Lisa will be with me, and I hope you have a good

503
00:46:24.400 --> 00:46:30.320
week and I'll see you in the
next one. Bye, guys, thank

504
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:34.719
you so much for listening to this
chapter of the Book of the dead and

505
00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:38.639
don't forget that. You can always
connect with us on Instagram, you can

506
00:46:38.719 --> 00:46:44.360
connect with us on Twitter, and
you can absolutely connect with us on Patreon.

507
00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:49.440
We also have a merch store as
well that we have frequent discount codes

508
00:46:49.519 --> 00:46:53.360
coming out for so that you guys
can get merch hand you're on by myself

509
00:46:53.639 --> 00:46:58.280
at a better cost. We hope
you have a lovely rest of your week

510
00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:05.159
and just remember, please be kind
and don't forget to always stay safe,

511
00:47:05.360 --> 00:47:08.360
stay curious, and stay vigilant.
Bye guys, Bye my